Alumni associations start requesting donations from as little as a year out of graduation. If you had to a put a dollar figure on your diploma, regardless of what you spent on it, what do you think it has been worth? Is it going to get less or more valuable in the future?
I really care about this because I’ve switched from a well-regarded private school to a good public school but at both I am not satisfied, not with the costs, but with the process. If I’m going to continue tell me what you profitted. Please also talk about “your education’s” impact on your mind.
Alumni associations start requesting donations from as little as a year out of graduation. If you had to a put a dollar figure on your diploma, regardless of what you spent on it, what do you think it has been worth? Is it going to get less or more valuable in the future?
I really care about this because I’ve switched from a well-regarded private school to a good public school but at both I am not satisfied, not with the costs, but with the process. If I’m going to continue tell me what you profitted. Please also talk about “your education’s” impact on your mind.
Thanks!”
Dumbasses, respond!
OK here’s my two cents. Listen to yourself. Use your own judgment. If you decide to learn something that’s in your interest or passion that’s your decision. Live and let live and let the people decide. Don’t get the government involved in mandating education. It never had to for us to consider it rationally as an option.
In short, I hate the current mandatory jail sentence of 11 years for every New Yorker. I HATE school.
OK, let’s tackle this in two parts. First off, the government’s involvement in mandatory education. For starters, minors are not capable of making the sort of long-impact decisions such as dropping out of school. We see it every day. They simply do not have the ability to truly understand how such decisions will affect the rest of their lives. For some people, that doesn’t magically change when they hit 18, but at least on the whole you’ve got a much better chance. Secondly, we as a society accept a certain amount of responsibility for each other. That’s how we function. Imagine the detriment to society as a whole if we have a large number of virtually unemployable citizens running around living off those of us who choose to work. It is a recipe for disaster- as a society and as a nation. As for “letting the people decide,” I believe you are quite mistaken if you think that society as a whole does not support the system we have in place.
As for individual reasons- frankly, beyond just employability, education is the greatest key we have for improving ourselves as individuals, learning to communicate clearly with others, understanding our place in history and the greater world, and providing a better future for the next generation to inherit. On a more immediate financial basis, it is a well-known fact that average income increases commensurate with each level of higher education achieved. It is also a necessity in virtually any occupation these days, in some form or another, to be on equal footing with your peers. And once you figure out what you want to do with your life, believe me, you WILL want to learn more about it.
Your comments about listening to yourself and using your own judgement are sound, indeed, but mean nothing if you have not obtained the ability to make good decisions in the first place. Education in every form, from school to informal personal investigation, is the key to that. Questioning the world around you is fine- indeed, it is a part of the journey. But you will find as you move forward that your questions are not unique, and many others have been where you are. Is it not in your best interest to learn what they have already thought of, to listen to what they have to say and pick up where they left off, rather than to start again from scratch? We move higher as a people by standing on the shoulders of those who came before us. That’s what education is about.
“As for “letting the people decide,” I believe you are quite mistaken if you think that society as a whole does not support the system we have in place.”
Other people don’t have the right to tell me what to do.
“once you figure out what you want to do with your life, believe me, you WILL want to learn more about it.”
I always read up on what I like if I decide to. It’s spontaneous and natural. 99% of what I have learned is informally and “unofficially” as an auto-didact. I hate school for slowing me down and wasting time but I like the socialization it could ideally provide if people were nicer.
Then we can talk again, like I touched upon, about my right to make my own decisions and not be imposed upon. Anarchy allows that.
I know my answers are simple. This is an argument and a discussion of civil procedure. I can take any stance I want and play devil’s advocate. I could be discussing my views or just be pretending to but I don’t have a preference. I just do what I like most of the time if not always. Except I don’t always live my dream life...it’s still a good life. And that life has been my way since I can remember---just more and more realized. There’s no age for being a real human in my respect. The age I decided I was being imposed upon was that age---say 7? After that, everything has been a real hell.
“As for “letting the people decide,” I believe you are quite mistaken if you think that society as a whole does not support the system we have in place.”
Other people don’t have the right to tell me what to do.
“once you figure out what you want to do with your life, believe me, you WILL want to learn more about it.”
I always read up on what I like if I decide to. It’s spontaneous and natural. 99% of what I have learned is informally and “unofficially” as an auto-didact. I hate school for slowing me down and wasting time but I like the socialization it could ideally provide if people were nicer.
Then we can talk again, like I touched upon, about my right to make my own decisions and not be imposed upon. Anarchy allows that.
I know my answers are simple. This is an argument and a discussion of civil procedure. I can take any stance I want and play devil’s advocate. I could be discussing my views or just be pretending to but I don’t have a preference. I just do what I like most of the time if not always. Except I don’t always live my dream life...it’s still a good life. And that life has been my way since I can remember---just more and more realized. There’s no age for being a real human in my respect. The age I decided I was being imposed upon was that age---say 7? After that, everything has been a real hell.
But your final two sentences indicate I am being redundant to a large degree. Redundant. A word I despise intellectually. Besides the fake that I can be a fake manipulator in how I want to come off intellectually I am still a real person who wants what he wants. To say that I am being redundant in my feelings and not learning from others is accurate but it doesn’t mean I should or have to. Certainly not have to be educated. I have the freedom to pursue failure and slower paths. If I even seek what you might expect I seek.
The best part is I have school as an option...and I do make use of the teachings of the past. It makes sense. OFTEN. I prefer to talk to people but I have read EXTENSIVELY when necessary to learn about past approaches and why they turned out how they did. You’re right---education is valuable...but I am self-motivated or at least motivated by the degree of freedom I am given. Keep that in mind...it allows me to be redundant and still have fun and let it be my choice. Just let your kids or at least mine be able to opt out of the state’s impositions like school.
If tehy are unemployable it’s their problem for choosing that path and they’ll die. Plain and simple. So you should encourage them not to make such a decision until perhaps they have some financial safety. Not about age though. But about options.
Other people don’t have the right to tell me what to do.
Unless you believe in anarchy, they do. Judging by your later comments, perhaps you do. But anarchy is not a viable option in human society. To think otherwise is to delude yourself. And since it is not going to happen, you might as well come to terms with that now.
I always read up on what I like if I decide to. It’s spontaneous and natural. 99% of what I have learned is informally and “unofficially” as an auto-didact. I hate school for slowing me down and wasting time but I like the socialization it could ideally provide if people were nicer.
Reading is great, and I am a big proponent, but it will get you only so far. Nobody ever became an expert in their field by sitting alone reading books. No matter how smart you are, every university in this country is filled with people who are smarter than you and better than you. Learn what you can from them while you’re there, because to ignore that opportunity is contrary to the very intelligence you claim to have.
I just do what I like most of the time if not always. Except I don’t always live my dream life...it’s still a good life. And that life has been my way since I can remember---just more and more realized. There’s no age for being a real human in my respect. The age I decided I was being imposed upon was that age---say 7? After that, everything has been a real hell.
This is quite a contradiction. You cannot say your life is a good one and then claim it is hell. Judging from what you have had to say for the past couple of months, you seem quite unhappy about a good many things. Has it not occured to you that perhaps your “do whatever I want” approach has been wildly unsuccessful? Besides, and no offense here because I don’t mean this about you personally, but we have a word for people who do what they want when they want, regardless of others. They’re called “obnoxious.” Or, if they’re young, we just call them brats.
If tehy are unemployable it’s their problem for choosing that path and they’ll die. Plain and simple.
Not that simple at all. We have an obligation to take care of others, unless you honestly think we should just let people who fall on hard times die alone in the streets. Besides, even if we do that, it doesn’t just impact them. That means a huge loss of workers and thus a large, negative economic impact, it means more crime, and it means a lesser life for everyone else.
To say that I am being redundant in my feelings and not learning from others is accurate but it doesn’t mean I should or have to.
Of course not, and you will recall that education is not mandatory beyond age 18. You could quit today if you wanted to, nobody is forcing you to stay. But since you posed this thread as a request for opinions, I can only tell you that I honestly believe you will live to regret it if you do. You say you do not want to be limited, but you will be artificially limiting yourself for the rest of your life.
I don’t know about the diploma itself, but my first two years of highschool I learned a lot in, the last one: not so much. If I had to put a monetary value on my diploma itself it would be the cost of a GED. I think public education has lost a lot of its value, according to my grandfather teachers used to recognise that students each have different abilities and worked to make the time the most productive, but now teachers just use the cookie-cutter “teaching” method that overtaxes the abilities of some students and insults the abilities of other student, and rarely, if ever, works well for a single student.
Again, I’m intellectual about what I’m seeing on the screen here. Cool-headed. It was interesting how shempzilla used a term or two to sum up many of my common behaviors---obnoxious or brat, probably a mix of the two at my age.
What I think of that is that I don’t care but only in some areas in my life but ideally every one of them. Yes, I’m doing what I want and yet not necessarily happy or getting what I want and what I want is something like happiness but better. Bliss with meaning or perhaps without. I’d say with meaning. The thing is I’m actually successful but I don’t feel it for some reason. It’s a disparity between my perception and my reality of success. I had most of what people would like at my age or even a different one...I could fairly say. I just shun the attention and don’t or can’t feel the success. Again, I can’t feel anything. But something about success…
The thing is I believe in anarchy as far as my personal happiness. I’m not killing or raping or anything. Self-defense if I needed to hurt people but only in a big situation, yeah. The real problem is so weird that it’s not even captured in words. It’s neither a problem nor a good thing because it is both nothing and everything. It is invisible, real, and mystical but certainly exists if only in my head. Crazy of course. The thing is there’s this constant image in my head of some other life...a dream. I keep reaching for it, explaining it, sharing it. When people dislike it I move elsewhere because they are not part of my soul.
That soul and vision is of 100% freedom like a rich entrepreneur would have..power too but not necessarily a lot but probably. A wonderful wonderful lovemate and mindmate. A family of my own and connections to my existing one. Best friends. Two at least or at most perhaps. Then there’s health. Why have everything and die the next day? I could die any day or get another sore throat like I have now. But I’d prefer eternal bliss with a healthy, to my standards, life and body.
Seriously, I hate school. But intellectually. I’m over my feelings now. I’ve transcended them. I want them back but only perhaps a wonderful girl or guy could make me fall in love and probably not at this point would that reignite those parts of my brain that are now off. I’m cold...but I still intellectualize about things I intellectually hate. It’s not HATE any more. It’s intellectual hate. It really is...that’s the best I can explain it.
It’s my opinion. The government needs to back off and let me spend my time. My time. Before 18. Too late now. I am only in college to live away from home. I like my Soc 105 class as mentioned. I like the potential to realize at least that one social dream or two I have. But remember, I’m quite intellectual now. I am just pursuing a dream with an open-mind and no judgments. Just journeying. If school is not a dominated strategy consider me a drop-out tomorrow. I did it once already. I didn’t like the jobs I found. I’m practical.
High school was intellectually disgusting except for Dr. Young’s class and perhaps Prof. I mean teach Mr. Collier but the electronics teacher Mr. Borakove was an intellectual hope of mine. I wished he would see me for the mind I was. The bright bright mind with tons of visions of the future. I still predict computer capabilities with accuracy nowadays.
You’re right shemp, I’m no longer happy. But I also am neutral. I have no feelings any more. Not the same way any more. Just saying this will be a test if it’s true or I get mad (haha...no I’m just intellectual so that’s not going to happen but again perhaps I’m wrong). It’s an experiment. If I’m wrong some feelings will come back.
If not, maybe I’m the overman or something great or something bad. Personally I’m me and I intellectually like it, for better or worse...but I know there’s the dream day and day and I chase it intellectually (again with that wonderful word, or evil?). Cerebral and intellectual are wonderful words that explain a lot to myself. Why am I growing towards that? Is it temporary? Am I turning into a computer? Is that what our generation will become if they use modern tech as much as I have?
P.S. I love reading. School is useful to discuss things but only because it’s got a credibility structure and that’s no monopoly. What watch happens intellectual discussion-wise on the Net. Wikipedia+++. I rarely find a chat buddy in real life. Now I will find one.
8 months later. After leaving school, this time because the classes I took were wrong for me, except Soc 105, but had to be taken because they were all that were available (joined mid-year, got low priority) that would count for my degree, I can say the main thing I miss is simply being out of the house and walking around a campus. Everything in one place.
I wrote the above stuff rather long-winded and complicated-like. My main point is that from the beginning school is a one-size fits all system. If you have poor communication skills, like I clearly do, you come off misunderstood and don’t get the attention you need to be nurtured. I was always someone at the edge of the normal class and the border of the advanced class and my neurological differences (Asperger’s Syndrome) kept me from being seen for my full intellectual capabilities and interests---I couldn’t even have a conversation with someone without a lot of (social) anxiety and pain, let alone share my ideas and knowledge, and the rush to do it on paper in a timed test always failed. Angry and insulted, I turned to books and self-study, seeking to read what the advanced students were reading and beyond without having to precisely score something on a test to receive the privilege.
Maybe indeed school could’ve worked for me and I belonged in either a special school or a specific private school. After awhile my feelings were so hurt I stopped caring whether people knew I was smart or not and whether school would teach me anything. I decided to do it myself and that any time I spend on school work was a burden and standing in the way of my own more efficient and personalized path. It wasn’t worth the agony to try to fit in just so I could be recognized as a thinker. I’ve had everything from being in trouble for raising my hand at the wrong times or too many times to being bullied by my fellow “students” who seemed to spend most of their time on things of a very shallow nature. That was them and I was me, alone, but curious and driven to read until I was satisfied I had found something that made sense about the world. The less I had to ask permission and follow “suggestions” the better I did.
Some of the books I accept and respect aren’t mainstream science, such as personality type theory (MBTI), but I learned them organically and passionately and by choice. They may have a minority following but it doesn’t make them invalid necessarily.
I do know from not being in school how much I am missing. I just get so mad about either the requirements system or testing that I feel like I’ve lost not just control over my schedule but over my mind. I felt like I was sacrificing brain time where my personal research was humming along smoothly for out of context, unasked for, random things to memorize. It was like an intellectual invasion. Perhaps I’m defending my own research too heavily though and I need sacrifice their evolution to fit the mold.
I guess angry is the right word.
Anyway although I asked you guys what you thought the value of your education was it was apparently a monologue/rant. I’m still trying to sort through why I wasn’t treated equally in school and how to best fit into the narrow categories of college, specifically a major. Plus I’ve been depressed so I was unable to, energy wise, put much work into school. I got pretty upset over how impersonal college was getting and I felt like those people on the staff who were trying to help me graduate and make a personalized degree still didn’t recognize the amount of effort those requirements that just won’t go away (physics and economics) were doing to what I was reading in my spare time. I felt it was inevitable that the more I got used to taking courses I wasn’t interested in, the less being a student would involve self-expression and personal meaning and instead rather become a process of being manipulated and zombified to fit artificially into the specific exact courses I was supposed to take.
In conclusion, I’m going to get a degree somehow, and I’m sure what I’ve learned independently will continue to pay off, both in school and at work, even if I learned it a sort of anarchistic fashion.
And I do hope that people with younger siblings feel bad for their brother or sister having to learn 3 languages and do advanced math if they are already competent at a marketable skillset and want to devote themselves/their full school time to that one subject (or two). Yes, there are popular but usually extremely competitive fields---musicians for example will not often be able to survive on just their work as part of bands or as songwriters, but I have faith that by making themselves understand the world in terms of music and immersing themselves in that specific subject intensely they will at least have one thing with true depth and that will help them know themself and be more assertive later on in life and be a better advocate for themselves whereas other people will more readily sacrifice their individuality rather use it strategically, because they haven’t had a chance to explore their passions fully enough. Being immersed in something you love can help you overcome much stress and adversity in life and I know that computers saved me from widdling away and dying years ago. If I had spent more time studying instead of learning computers I might have been an A student instead of a B one and have graduated but I would be that much further from happiness and it’s so much harder to take time off from life for personal growth and therapy if you are out in the real world already and have big responsibility. It’s better I do that now rather than wait until I’m retired years from now.
It’s pretty clear I should get a degree and just take whatever I’m supposed to take and not make it personal. Just get it over with.
I’ve come to the conclusion that English wasn’t the right field for me; it feels so forced. I don’t see the use in analyzing every minute detal of a piece of writing, as if the writer had a clear intention for every comma. No, that’s not the way I write. That’s not the way anyone writes.I write stuff they way I do because I like the way it sounds! Clearly, I don’t give a shit about literary theory.
If I had to do it again, I’d probably do communication or something.
So, the value of my education? I don’t know. If anything I got some good critical thinking skills out of it.
I am only a junior in highschool, most say this is my critical year of school. The one that decides where i go to colledge.. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH! Freankly our education in my mind has no value unless it can be directly appyed to life. Finding the number that sally and john discovered was five tiems the opposite equaled negative ten times the nuber makes me want to stab someone. And it has no application. Luckaly i already have a plan for my colledge life. You may all disagree as you see fit. I plan on going to Fullsail and taking their stage productioon course and getting my A$$ociate degree in that.Why? becsaue i can do that stuff. I work for my church doing stage production in above professional venue settings, and its aplicable. SO education needs application. Thats the way i see it.
I think some stuff you should know regardless. For example it’s always good to know some history. It’s not a bad idea to take an art class or two as well. And stuff like English does have a practical application in that you do learn critical thinking (it’s just the damn overanalysis that gets me!). But yeah, there are some things that are just busywork.
Well of course (not sarcasm) having a degree from Berkeley at any given GPA as long as you graduate is a good start in life. That’s an advantage. So I’d say for Nick, he’s got an advantage and while it did take a lot of overanalysis the end result is great marketability wise.
As for applying education to Real Life, that’s totally possible. You will learn useful things. It’s like not having to make mistakes. My point is that you’d learn more relevant things if you had tight control over the subject matter at, actually, a daily/microscopic level. Really personalized.
Also they really should stop trying to make us into Ti83’s and just let the Ti83’s do the Ti83 work (calculators). One class I also lost out on because of old-fashioned ways is Drawing and Design for Production. What they wanted is hand-drawn blueprints. This was freshman year in high school I think… We actually had Macs! to do these physics simulations on to test the forces on our structures but over and over again what we got graded on had to be hand-drawn and even with rulers I would have to erase things and it got messy. I spent a lot of time sharpening my pencil and asking for an eraser. It was a mess. The Mac was much easier to draft on and finalize my structure on but they insisted it be done on huge pieces of paper and that if you have a straight line, a single bump in it is a failure of your work. It might’ve been easier not to have little errors like that if I could’ve sit at a desk (IIRC it was a group of 4 people at once, desks arranged in a square, all facing each other “[]” ) without there always being someone who would be making fun of me in one way or another. In that class, rather than try to perfectly sketch something, I would’ve preferred to invisibly have watched and asked someone nice questions about the field. I did, indeed, have tons of interest in being an architect (Legos/blocks) but that class threw me off. I guess I’m better at visualizing designs in my head than paintstakingly arranging them perfectly on paper. Some of the members of that class did actually make some nice houses and built scale models (3D) out of wood or something. Sometimes even out of Legos. It felt wrong that I only got a B in that class.
Oh, and I got to play Flight Simulator (Microsoft?) on those Macs IIRC. http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_lc/stats/mac_lc_630.html Perhaps that model of perhaps a Performa. I went to college in 2003 and this was in 2000 or earlier but it could’ve still been an education model computer from 1995. It might’ve been on the edge of a system upgrade. I can guess they have PowerMac G5’s by now. Probably about 20 of them.
Well, since I never really addressed the topic directly the first time through, I guess I will chime in. Personally, my education has been invaluable. For one thing, I couldn’t do what I’m doing without a degree, so that’s a no brainer. But beyond that, my education over the years has helped to shape me into the person I am. Sure, there are always requirements that seem useless or that you figure you’ll never use in the “real world,” but they teach you something nonetheless. Whatever your interests are, I think it’s important to get a well-rounded education in order to truly appreciate the world around you. For example, most professional services - doctors, lawyers, accountants, engineers, architects - have numerous prerequisites to practice because they require a very specialized skill set. Yet at the same time, I don’t think I could succeed as an architect without the knowledge I gained in numerous other fields- math, art, psychology, sociology, history, English, science, politics, economics, technology, and so on. Some of those don’t seem to have anything to do with architecture, but I took classes in them anyway because they suggested it and now I’m glad I did. You’d be surprised how things that seem useless at the time gain importance later on when you realize how to utilize the knowledge and skills you gained from them. That probably sounds preachy, but I’m too hungry to read it over before posting, so there you go. Take what you will.
The thing is I believe in anarchy as far as my personal happiness.
I think you believe in autonomy not anarchy.
Anarchy means a total lack of structure and no predefined domineering value system---you create your reality from scratch. You do whatever you think is right. You make judgments and rules for yourself with no one else’s approval and you don’t have to look up to a king or anyone. Everyone is just a person. No elitism.
But the anarchy as an economic system could work theoretically and maybe it has in some ways already for many people. Whether it’s called anarchy or not, what I’m talking about is self-motivation. I want people to do what they are passionate about and learn what interests them. Requirements in college are a burden that inteferes with genuine self-motivated voluntary learning that is never forced artificially onto someone. I want people to care about what they’re learning and not having requirements (more freedom, less structure) allows them to choose better for themselves what they need and want from college. My faith is that there are people who can make these decisions successful for their needs and get good things out of college.
You customize your education 100% to yourself and your talents if u wish, though you can challenge yourself (and i have) in creative ways and indeed push yourself beyond your comfort zone, but at your own pace. Very flexible and much less pressure. Relaxed students can better focus. School was so stressful it made me clinically depressed for awhile. Still causes serious anxiety. I think school is way too strict.
The last college I looked at is a state school that believes self-motivated people are unstoppable and great but it “like all the other state schools has xyz requirements”...but supposedly this one has even more accessible science classes than the last state school i tried (for the natural science requirements). those upper level courses though are hard...the computer has some great learning resources. I have about 5 documentaries i could watch on Google Video for free.
These stats say:
1) high school graduates with no further education usually never make more than 24k
2) bachelors graduates make up to 53k
3) grad students 78k
These stats say:
1) high school graduates with no further education usually never make more than 24k
2) bachelors graduates make up to 53k
3) grad students 78k
most of them
survey 2004.
You can monetize a degree, no doubt. That of course doesn’t mean you got anything out of it though.
