I didn’t say I could. I said I don’t have to press RETURN to get results. You use to admit that the instant results was better. Now you don’t since Vista doesn’t do it.
You know that you don’t have to hit return to get instant results in Vista either, right?
Do this, type a couple of letters and get the classic Windows Media Player without knowing what the 8.3 name is.
Can’t. Classic WMP doesn’t exist on Vista. You can however download Windows Media Player Classic (free-codecs.com) and just type “cla”.
A question mark?
For some reason that’s what links do on this forum… I’ll try again.
What do I get with “ou” in Vista? Outlook? No. I had to type “ou” RETURN then “out” RETURN to get “Outlook”.
No. Open the start menu. It’s is search as you type. Have you ever used Vista? It’s a free download, you know.
That’s the point, I don’t have to know the proper 8.3 letters or any of that.
no one mentioned anything about 8.3. No need for 8.3 in Vista either.
I’m simply typing the name of the application I use and it appears by the time I get to the second letter. I don’t have to memorize shortcuts or any of that nonsense. The name of Photoshop is “Adobe Photoshop CS2”. I type “pho” and it appears. It’s just smart. I’m not memorizing shortcuts here.
1. I’m not sure where you got this “shortcuts” and “8.3” stuff from. I’m doing the same thing you are… typing the name of the program.. Vista is just much faster at it than Spotlight is so I don’t have to wait for the search results to appear (or even for the menu to appear) before I can hit enter and launch the app.
You said with Vista, if you want you can wait for more results. The same thing applies to Spotlight. The result I want is there before I type the third letter, but I can wait and see the list populate in a couple of seconds.
That’s just the thing. You can wait but you don’t have to. Once the first results come in vista they are never displaced by other results unlike Spotlight. For instace, type “jpg” into spotlight. It’ll show you one set of results very quickly then move all those results out of the way to show you the final results. That never happens with vista. the first results to show up stay first new results are added to the end.
LOL! That’s so weak, Kuaidang. I have it as a single button on my mouse.
I have a two button mouse with a scroll wheel. no room for extra functions.
What does F1 do in FCP? Nothing. You are making things up again.
Can you read? I didn’t say just FCP (although F1 in FCP 4.x gives you the help menu and I don’t think that’s changed in FCP 5 but I can’t check because I haven’t installed it on this new Mac yet.). Notice that I provided you with a list of applications and FCP was only one of them. In the same sentence I said Avid, Excel etc.
Since Spotlight came out I don’t think I’ve launched an app by actually finding it in the Applications folder. The command-enter trick (that none of you seem to have addressed saves a lot of time. For example, if I want to launch Terminal - command-space, “ter”, command-enter. Takes less than 2 seconds. As opposed to opening a new Finder window, going to Go > Utilities, scrolling over and finding Terminal, and double-clicking.
If I want to launch my Solitaire game, command-space, “so”, command-enter. Google Earth? Command-space, “go”, command-enter. Etc.
When they first showed Spotlight off and Jobs said that people were going to just stop using the Finder, I thought that was a bit of a stretch. But it’s true in terms of using the Applications folder, at least for me. The only time I EVER open it now is if I can’t think of the name of an application but I know its icon. Otherwise, Spotlight all the way.
Classic WMP doesn’t exist on Vista. You can however download Windows Media Player Classic (free-codecs.com) and just type “cla”.
That doesn’t work for me at all. The name of the application is “mplayerc.exe”.
I’m not sure where you got this “shortcuts” and “8.3” stuff from. I’m doing the same thing you are… typing the name of the program.. Vista is just much faster at it than Spotlight is so I don’t have to wait for the search results to appear (or even for the menu to appear) before I can hit enter and launch the app.
That’s assuming it selects the right one and that you’ve typed the name correctly for Vista. If not, you have to select the one you want. From my experience, it’s often not the one I want with just 2 or 3 letters as you suggest.
Want to bring up the System Registry Editor? Type “regedt32” to get “REGEDT32.EXE”.
You are being completely disingenuous about the Vista experience here.
You can wait but you don’t have to. Once the first results come in vista they are never displaced by other results unlike Spotlight.
Here’s an example of being disingenuous. The first result for the application I want is the Top Hit and it appears before I type the third letter in many cases and then I just press CMND RETURN (thanks, DaGuy).
You are trying to sell us the idea that in Vista, you don’t even need to confirm that it has selected the application you want before pressing RETURN versus another application that also has those “2 or 3 letters”.
For instace, type “jpg” into spotlight.
And now you are straying from the topic, which is typical. We are talking about launching applications, aren’t we? My list of applications is at the top of the Spotlight results. Whatever happens to the list of JPEGs doesn’t affect the list of applications. Those files are added below the applications.
Again, disingenuous.
I have a two button mouse with a scroll wheel. no room for extra functions.
Which mouse do you have on your Mac? Which Mac do you own?
In any case, I have corrected your FUD (again). You can assign Spotlight to one key, if you want.
I didn’t say just FCP (although F1 in FCP 4.x gives you the help menu and I don’t think that’s changed in FCP 5 but I can’t check because I haven’t installed it on this new Mac yet.). Notice that I provided you with a list of applications and FCP was only one of them. In the same sentence I said Avid, Excel etc.
Excel doesn’t use F1 either. Avid uses F1 for Help and can be changed.
Your argument about the number of keys to bring up Spotlight is moot.
What happens when you type “System Registry Editor”? I don’t get regedit.
It fails. Whoever,that’s because by default Vista does not index things in the Windows folder. If you copy the file to, let’s say, your desktop, and you search by “Registry” or “Regystry Editor” it does find the program. If you type “System” before it fails simply because the program is not called “System ....”, just like Media Player Classic doesn’t have a “Windows ...” word on its name. If you type “regedit” as everybody did in all previous Windows versions, it works as expected also.
But your screenshots show that if you just press RETURN without looking at the list you will get the wrong application 2 out of your 4 screenshots.
And that can’t be helped, no matter what you do, when you have Apps with simmilar names. However I think Vista keeps track of the most used ones, and prioritize them in those cases .... maybe kuaidang knows this better.
Since Spotlight came out I don’t think I’ve launched an app by actually finding it in the Applications folder. The command-enter trick (that none of you seem to have addressed saves a lot of time. For example, if I want to launch Terminal - command-space, “ter”, command-enter. Takes less than 2 seconds. As opposed to opening a new Finder window, going to Go > Utilities, scrolling over and finding Terminal, and double-clicking.
The issue is not if Spotlight is easier than using the applications folder (it is) but is it easier than using Vista’s start menu (it’s not). CMD+Enter is a really cliumbsy shortcut compare to just hitting enter.
That’s assuming it selects the right one and that you’ve typed the name correctly for Vista. If not, you have to select the one you want. From my experience, it’s often not the one I want with just 2 or 3 letters as you suggest.
Which is no different than Spotlight’s accuracy… well actually Vista’s accuracy is better because of it’s adaptive search and its default action is to launch the app (when you press return) as opposed to launching the spotlight window. CMD+return is a really clumbsy key combo compared to just hitting return.
Want to bring up the System Registry Editor? Type “regedt32” to get “REGEDT32.EXE”.
You are being completely disingenuous about the Vista experience here.
At this point I’m don’t even think you have it installed and have used it much at all. FYI, to get the registry editor you just type “regedit”.
You are trying to sell us the idea that in Vista, you don’t even need to confirm that it has selected the application you want before pressing RETURN versus another application that also has those “2 or 3 letters”.
that isn’t what I said. KEY ELEMENT OF CONTEXT: works if you already know the disambiguation string from repeated use.
NABE showed this very clearly.
And now you are straying from the topic, which is typical. We are talking about launching applications, aren’t we? My list of applications is at the top of the Spotlight results. Whatever happens to the list of JPEGs doesn’t affect the list of applications. Those files are added below the applications.
Again, disingenuous.
you’re getting ridiculous now. The point was that spotlight first returns some resutls then the list reorders itself when new results come in. Vista does not do this and it’s a major flaw with spotlight.
Which mouse do you have on your Mac? Which Mac do you own?
IBM Mouse optical I think it’s called. I own several Macs… the one I have hooked up is the $799 Mac Mini with the Core Duo. Next week I’ll probably own a Macbook too.
In any case, I have corrected your FUD (again). You can assign Spotlight to one key, if you want.
One key as in one of the function keys… you are the only one spreading FUD as you probably don’t even have Vista installed. All that bull about Vista not having search as you type… :rolleyes
At no point did I say Spotlight could not be set to one key… in fact, I said all the “good” keys were already taken by the various pro apps I use. I even stated that F1 was the best one I found but it still falls victim to several apps… FCP, Motion, Avid Xpress, Office, etc. In fact, Motion by itself kills off the first 7 function keys.
you are the one spreading the b.s. about f1 not being used in FCP.
And even though you can change the function keys it just goes to highlight how much more incovienent every possible set of Spotlight key combos (including the keystroke you use to launch apps) is than Vista’s search box. Going through every app I own to find out if I need to remap the keys is simply not as convienent as the win key.. which is specially designed for the start menu.
So you even suggesting that remaping the keys in multiple apps (avid and FCP so far) in addition to remapping the key stroke for spotlight itself is just “disingenuous”. Why are you even arguing that point. Vista’s start menu is a better app launcher than Spotlight, period. In terms of app launching, there isn’t a single thing that Spotlight does superior to Vista (or even WDS?).
But your screenshots show that if you just press RETURN without looking at the list you will get the wrong application 2 out of your 4 screenshots.
No one suggested that you could type in any three letters in the name but that you could type the disambiguation string and hit return without looking or having the menu appear. You can’t do that with spotlight, period. You must wait for the results to appear before you hit arrow+return or cmd+return and launch the app.
Since Spotlight came out I don’t think I’ve launched an app by actually finding it in the Applications folder. The command-enter trick (that none of you seem to have addressed saves a lot of time. For example, if I want to launch Terminal - command-space, “ter”, command-enter. Takes less than 2 seconds. As opposed to opening a new Finder window, going to Go > Utilities, scrolling over and finding Terminal, and double-clicking.
If I want to launch my Solitaire game, command-space, “so”, command-enter. Google Earth? Command-space, “go”, command-enter. Etc.
When they first showed Spotlight off and Jobs said that people were going to just stop using the Finder, I thought that was a bit of a stretch. But it’s true in terms of using the Applications folder, at least for me. The only time I EVER open it now is if I can’t think of the name of an application but I know its icon. Otherwise, Spotlight all the way.
Try using Quicksilver for app launching. For that kind of thing it’s even more efficient than Spotlight. I swear by it.
KD, how does Vista’s Start Menu search not reorder itself as additional results come in? Is it not ordered by priority?
It collects every hit in a category, then displays the category all at once. I type in “wi” in the search box and the results appear by category with ~.35-.5 seconds between each category being displayed.
KD, how does Vista’s Start Menu search not reorder itself as additional results come in? Is it not ordered by priority?
It collects every hit in a category, then displays the category all at once. I type in “wi” in the search box and the results appear by category with ~.35-.5 seconds between each category being displayed.
Ah. Good idea, and definitely something Spotlight needs to gain in 10.5.
I used QuickSilver long before Spotlight ever came out, and I agree that it’s faster for app launching. The reason why it is, though, is because it doesn’t search metadata. I don’t use it anymore because I don’t like the idea of having to use two different search systems depending on what I’m doing. QuickSilver is great for app launching, but if I’m searching metadata or something within a file, then I have to use Spotlight instead. To me, being able to use Spotlight for both functions is more important than launching apps slightly faster but having to switch between the two.
If QuickSilver could incorporate metadata searching, but remain just as fast for app launching, I would switch back. I do agree it’s one of the nicest pieces of Mac software out there.
Yeah, even the installer was pretty cool with all the cube rotations and such. Did you notice that you didn’t need to enter your admin password to install it?
Exactly!!!!! Here you are pissing all over Spotlight because you said you have to wait for the results, etc. That is all BS and you know it.
I then tell you that you have to look at your list in Vista because you get multiple results (just like Spotlight) and you need to make sure the default that Vista has selected is the one you want before you press RETURN. You then say that you have learned which letters to type in to get the result you want.
That’s exactly what I do in Spotlight.
With Spotlight, if I type “pho”, “Adobe Photoshop” is the Top Hit. I don’t even have to look, just like you. I can type “pho” and press CMND RETURN and it gets launched without even looking at the menu.
well actually Vista’s accuracy is better because of it’s adaptive search
Just like the Top Hit.
But all of that is moot now. In Spotlight, I type in two or three letters and and then press CMND ENTER and it gets launched.
CMD+return is a really clumbsy key combo compared to just hitting return.
No, the left hand’s thumb is right there with its thumb. But let’s boil down your whole argument to one sentence—Vista’s launcher is superior because you only have to press RETURN and not CMND RETURN.
Of course, you have no problem having to use “clumsy” keys on your keyboard when using Flip3D.
works if you already know the disambiguation string from repeated use.
And you are disingenuous because you are portraying the situation as Vista has this but Spotlight doesn’t.
In my opinion, you portrayed the Spotlight experience as this:
1. You have to press a key combo to bring up Spotlight
2. You type in the name of the application you want and you have to wait for all your results to come in.
3. You have to down arrow or mouse to the application you want and then press RETURN, making sure that Spotlight is done adding JPEGs to the list because it will make the applications list jump around.
Now, if you want to say that’s not how Spotlight works, my work is done here.
The point was that spotlight first returns some resutls then the list reorders itself when new results come in.
That’s just you trying to criticize Spotlight for something that doesn’t even affect the argument, and you know it. JPEGs? We are talking about applications. You have applications at the top of the list and so do I. JPEGs being added to the list doesn’t affect the application list in Vista or OS X. When Vista adds categories under Programs, does that affect you?
Have you installed OS X?
Vista does not do this and it’s a major flaw with spotlight.
Yeah, you have to wait for the whole category to be populated before it starts showing you results. Wow. That’s revolutionary.
the one I have hooked up is the $799 Mac Mini with the Core Duo
Which comes with the Mighty Mouse, right?
One key as in one of the function keys
OK, change your argument all you want. Before it was Vista uses one key to invoke it and Spotlight has to use a key combo, now it’s Vista uses one key to invoke it and Spotlight uses two or a function key. Oh, brother.
you are the only one spreading FUD as you probably don’t even have Vista installed. All that bull about Vista not having search as you type… :rolleyes
You probably don’t even have OS X installed, all that bull about Exposé not being able to switch between two recent documents and having to use the mouse. (rolls eyes).
You thought you had to either arrow or mouse over to the application you want to launch. (rolls eyes)
And even though you can change the function keys
More than just the function keys, but at least you are learning.
Going through every app I own to find out if I need to remap the keys is simply not as convienent as the win key.. which is specially designed for the start menu.
I totally agree with you on that. Having a proprietary key on the keyboard for various OS X things is something Apple could easily do considering they control the hardware and the OS.
However, that wasn’t my issue with your comments. You specifically stated you have to use a key combo. Maybe that was in reference to QuickSilver, I don’t know. I’m guessing QuickSilver can be invoked by other means too.
What’s frustrating is in another thread where you were bashing Exposé, you were reminded that you can customize the keys in OS X and yet you still make those comments.
Check out the Keyboard System Preference. It’s included with OS X.
So you even suggesting that remaping the keys in multiple apps (avid and FCP so far) in addition to remapping the key stroke for spotlight itself is just “disingenuous”.
No, FCP 5 does not using the F1 key. Bring up the Buttons palette and do a search for F1. Oh yeah, you don’t have Final Cut Studio installed. (rolls eyes)
I have the keys customized in all of my applications. I had to do it once. You are being disingenuous again because I know you are smarter than this.
Vista’s start menu is a better app launcher than Spotlight, period
Yes, because you have to press RETURN and I have to press CMND RETURN. Praise Vista and all of its greatness!!! We waited six years for it, but damn if it isn’t an amazing revolution in operating system technology!
No one suggested that you could type in any three letters in the name
Straw man. Nobody claimed anyone made that suggestion.
but that you could type the disambiguation string and hit return without looking or having the menu appear. You can’t do that with spotlight, period.
Right, with Spotlight you have to press CMND RETURN. Oh my God! It’s soooo hard.
You said:
I like the Gnome menu the best but the best launcher is the one in Vista. you just type a letter or two and you’re there… no menu’s needed.
Now, if you want to clarify that to say, “...you just type a disambiguation string and hit return...”, that’s great.
You must wait for the results to appear before you hit arrow+return or cmd+return and launch the app
Which appear before I type a third letter. “pho” BAM! Adobe PHotoshop appears.
KD, how does Vista’s Start Menu search not reorder itself as additional results come in? Is it not ordered by priority?
It collects every hit in a category, then displays the category all at once. I type in “wi” in the search box and the results appear by category with ~.35-.5 seconds between each category being displayed.
Ah. Good idea, and definitely something Spotlight needs to gain in 10.5.
Really?
What’s the last category?
You want to sit and wait for all of the results to be in per category before you can access them at all versus having a live list that you can work with while the list is being populated?
Remember, the Spotlight results in the upper-right isn’t showing you all 40,000 files. It’s showing you the top results for each category. So you’d rather wait till it has sifted through all before displaying them to you?
Vista doesn’t give you 78,000 results in 2 seconds after typing in “.jpeg”. That’s how many results I get on my Mac with “JPEG” in Spotlight. This PC I have Vista on isn’t even a production system (meaning it doesn’t have nearly as many files as my OS X system), but it’s definitely taking longer than .5 seconds to populate each category when I type in .JPEG.
With Spotlight, if I type “pho”, “Adobe Photoshop” is the Top Hit. I don’t even have to look, just like you. I can type “pho” and press CMND RETURN and it gets launched without even looking at the menu.
Pay attention. The difference between “pho” in Vista and in spotlight is that the latter requires the result to come in before you press CMND Return (or down arrow return). I can type “pho+down+return” before the Spotlight menu pops up, particularly if the system is bogged down and reacting slowly.
AND WHY MUST YOU TRY TO MAKE YOUR ARGUEMENT BY CUTTING KEY ELEMENTS OF CONTEXT OUT OF MY SENTENCES? THE SENTENCE YOU QUOTED (HALF QUOTED) HAS
Just like the Top Hit.
the top hit in Spotlight is not adaptive like vista’s search is.
No, the left hand’s thumb is right there with its thumb. But let’s boil down your whole argument to one sentence—Vista’s launcher is superior because you only have to press RETURN and not CMND RETURN.
By comparison that is clumbsy especially after you consider the key combo that you used to access spotlight in the first place. Adn you must hit both CMD and Return at the same time not sequentially like you can with Vista… Vista’s search and launching is faster, period. So the arguement it this:
1. Vista’s search has a key dedicated to it (the winkey). there’s no need to hit two keys at the same time, stretch for a function key, or remap the keyboard in any way shape or form.
2. Return (pressed sequentially) is much faster than CMD+Return pressed at the same time… and much less awkward.
3. Vista’s results are adaptive.
4. Vista’s results list does not jump or reoder itself when new results come in.
5. Vista caches the results of frequently used searches to do them faster
6. Vista’s search box acts as a “run box” or CLI and can pass arguements to applications… like loading a specific web page in a specific web browser or lauching an app in a certian state (run as admin, minimized, full screen etc.)
7. You don’t need to wait for the results to come in before you complete all the neccesary keystrokes to launch an app. So even if the app is not the top hit (i.e. install Quicksilver and do a search for “ic” and ichat will be second), you can launch the app quicker in Vista than in spotlight.
In my opinion, you portrayed the Spotlight experience as this:
That’s because you are making stuff up in your own mind or you lack reading comphrension skills, specifically those dealing with contextual issues. Here’s why:
1. You have to press a key combo to bring up Spotlight
Remember that you posted this and the “system.framwork” stuff before you were reminded that the discussion was not about Spotlight but about the specific launchers mentioned in the first post and the couple that theLetterK brought up (specifically Quicksilver).
Now look at the entire contextually relevant quote:
“At best, Gnome+Deskbar is trying to emulate what vista does perfectly. The results are grouped, sorted, adaptive, and fast. you can find any file or folder on the disk or any application. The key combo is dead easy (just one button) and it’s easier to use”
Notice that the comparison here is Vista to gnome+Deskbar… you imagined the Spotlight reference. Also notice that I was saying that Vista uses one button not that the other menus (other than gnome+deskbar) don’t. Obviously I wouldn’t say that since other menus like the one in KDE and Gnome use the exact same key that Vista does to pull up their menus (but the gnome menu doesn’t have search in it). Although it may be hard to understand (my fault), the “easier to use” part refers to the fact that the default action of RETURN in vista is to launch the app… which obviously isn’t true with Spotlight either… so the “key combo actually refered to both the key stroke to envoke the menu and launch the app.
2. You type in the name of the application you want and you have to wait for all your results to come in.
Another absolutely ridiculous creation of your mind. At no point was there any use of the word “all” in that context. The quote was “You have to wait for Spotlight to return the results then arrow down and press return. “. Obviously given that, in the same post, I mentioned that doing the quick “MA+ down+return” keystroke resulted in launching something before all the results were in, that this could not be contextually taken as an “all” statement. Further, some results on my system (like the search for “a” take 5+ seconds it should be blatantly obvious to you what the context is.
3. You have to down arrow or mouse to the application you want and then press RETURN, making sure that Spotlight is done adding JPEGs to the list because it will make the applications list jump around.
Another complete figment of your imagination. The jpg example (quoted below) at no point mentioned launching or searching for apps. In fact, the string I used was “jpg”. Common fucking sense would tell you that “jpg” isn’t a search meant for launching apps. The jpg example was to illustrate how spotlight reorders its results list.. even (sometimes) the top hit result. For iinstance, let’s say you already have “j” typed into spotlight… on my system when you type “p” after that, the top hit goes to one jpg then quickly switches to jpgicon.jpg. Then when you type in the “g” it goes back to the first jpg and quickly switches to jpgicon.jpg. I will even attach the video to the end of the post.
When Vista adds categories under Programs, does that affect you?
No, why would it? Results don’t reorder and the “top hit” never changes.
Which comes with the Mighty Mouse, right?
nope. It’s BYOKM. I wouldn’t use the mighty mouse anyway… it sucks.
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