The price isn’t that bad when you consider that you are essentially getting a very powerful PDA with a great phone and iPod built in. I can see why some people are worried about the Mac, but I remember a MacWorld a while ago that was mostly dedicated to the iPod and there was a similar response. The Mac is still growing, it’s just Apple is growing fast than it for once.

And people need to remember one thing. Steve Jobs prefers the Mac. As long as he is around I don’t see the Mac going anywhere, and given that Apple makes a lot of money from Mac sales I don’t see them giving it up, even if they have lots of other products.

Yeah, I think a lot of the fears about the Mac are unfounded. Even though it’s a smaller percentage of Apple’s revenue than it once was, the Mac is selling very well; Apple still spends tens (hundreds?) of millions of dollars to research, design, build, and market the Mac. There are millions of ardent Mac users, and the user base is growing, increasing the Mac’s revenue stream. And as someone on another forum said, the Mac is at the center of all these new gadgets. Mac OS X technology is at the heart of these devices. They only cement the Mac’s role as the center of the digital hub.

Remember that Jobs said that some huge Mac announcements were coming in the next few months. And also remember that in 2001 at the iPod intro, Jobs did hint that Apple would be getting into other consumer electronics. Five+ years later, here we are.

the Apple TV will be ill-equipped to handle those, because of its small hard drive (even iPods come with larger hard drives these days) and its reliance on wireless transmission, though it does support Ethernet.

Agreed.  Most media players either lets you put your own hard disk inside or buy a unit with one.  For a media player 40GB is very small, smaller than the latest PMPs!

The iPhone combines three devices into one unit; it includes music and video playback capability similar to that of the iPod

Basically an mp3 player with phone capabilities. 

Hang on, I’ve seen something like this before, the O2/T-Mobile phones that I often talk about for geez how long now.  I guess Apple will try to wipe out all traces of similar looking devices and take hold of this market just like they tried to do with their mp3s.  The world still evolves as it has always been.

I wonder what is the point of supporting video on the iPhone.  What is it really?  An mp3, phone or video player?  This is becoming a bit like the jack of all trade kind of thing Mac fans complain about.  The iPod is neither good enough for my music collections or is it a viable option for watching video, so what is the point really?

Its just another gadget.

Agreed.  Most media players either lets you put your own hard disk inside or buy a unit with one. 

It’s a media extender. Most media extenders don’t even have a hard drive.

You stream videos/photos/music from up to 5 Macs on your home LAN to your TV. That’s the purpose of the device. My G5 has 500 gigs of hard drive space to store videos/photos/music. So the 20 gig hard drive on the Apple TV is a non-issue.

http://www.apple.com/appletv/

Your computer is the center of your digital life. Your TV is the center of your entertainment life. But what if you want to watch movies, TV shows, movie trailers, podcasts, and photos from your computer on your TV? At $299, Apple TV brings iTunes to the big screen.

You Windows fan boys know all about media extenders. You were even here a few months ago saying that iTV is Apple copying Microsoft in this regard. It’s funny you now are calling it a media player with a hard drive that’s too small. That’s really, really funny, in fact.

Microsoft Media Extender:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/mediacen ter/extender/owner/mcxkit.mspx

Store your digital media on your Media Center PC — photos, music, videos, live and recorded TV—and bring it all to life throughout your home through the Xbox console.

That’s what you do - you store your stuff on your PC and then stream it to your TV.

Xbox 360 is a media extender. There are two models - one without a hard drive and one with a 20 gig hard drive.

The Sony PS3 Basic has a 20 gig hard drive.

The Xbox 360 doesn’t even allow you to use the hard drive. According to their site, the Xbox 360 cannot transfer files from your Media Center PC to the Xbox 360’s optional 20 gig hard drive. It’s strictly a streaming device.

This is becoming a bit like the jack of all trade kind of thing Mac fans complain about.

But it’s a master of many. Mac fans complain about Microsoft vomiting buttons and features all over their GUI with no logical order, making it unintuitive. From what I’ve seen, the iPhone’s GUI looks very intuitive.

Its really simple really.  The PS3/XBOX/whatever doesn’t pretend to be a video player even though they have that capability.  They are gaming consoles first and media centers second.  Their hard disk aren’t originally meant for storage huge capacities of media except for saving gaming data.  The fact that it supports media is a bonus most people welcome. 

ITV on the other had is a dedicated media player (or as Apple fancifully calls it “the extender"). It has features commonly found in existing players like wireless stream, network connectivity, usb hosting, HDMI connectivity etc.  But what’s this?

- 720p high definition video

I wonder if Apple has ever heard of 1080p videos?  Each movie is about 12-30GB, um you’ll only be able to fit one FULL-HD movie on an ITV! 

BTW, I’m loving my FHD TV and movies from my media players.

And this?

$300

You have to be joking to pay that much for a half hearted media player.  The ITV is perhaps the most limited media player I’ve ever seen.

But it’s a master of many.

That one made me laugh hard.

You aren’t comprehending what I’m telling you. The size of the hard drive is irrelevant because it streams the movies. Do you understand what that means?

Their hard disk aren’t originally meant for storage huge capacities of media except for saving gaming data.  The fact that it supports media is a bonus most people welcome.

You really need to read posts you are replying to. I just told you the Xbox 360’s hard drive does not store media files.

Like every media extender, it streams the files from your PC.

Those movies are for rental, right? You download it and you have 24 hours to watch it. If you want it longer, you have to pay more, right? So space for a handful of those movies you download is all you need, right? Correct me if I’m wrong.

What informer and I are talking about is HD space for your media files from your PC.

But guess what? No-one cares

Because, as I’ve said, you stream content to the Apple TV, so the hard drive size is moot. I wasn’t the one who brought up the hard drive size, you were.

You are confusing the Xbox Live Video Marketplace with Xbox 360s capacity as a media center. There are basically four ways to watch video on the Xbox 360 (not counting HD DVD or DVD movies)

OK, thanks for clarifying that. Can you transfer your movies and TV shows from your Xbox hard drive to your PC?

Incidentally, Apple has confirmed that they will not support third party applications on the iPhone

Thanks for posting that. So it’s just like the iPod in this regard.

As usual MacFan you don’t read enough into people’s post to really think about what they’re saying.  I think by doing that would solve half of your problems with the constant replies of “you don’t know what you’re talking about” sort of thing that you often find yourself in.

Having said that, what is the HD in the ITV used for anyway?  A true media extender like my media player doesn’t have to have a hard disk in order to play videos.  A computer, external hard disk and usb devices like my USB mp3 player can be connect for movies to be streamed via the player to the TV.  Fortunately my media player accepts HDs of up to 1TB (or whatever is available out there for 3.5"). 

And finally :

What informer and I are talking about is HD space for your media files from your PC.

Since when was I talking to you about HD space from the PC?  Don’t look at me you’re in your own world here.

But guess what? No-one cares because the 360 is a gaming machine first, media device second. And MS will come out with a much larger hard drive (rumored to be 120GB) in the coming months.

Exactly.  What a lot of people don’t realise that the XBOX360 is already hackable to do more than advertised.  That is what getting everybody excited.

As usual MacFan you don’t read enough into people’s post to really think about what they’re saying.

Yeah, it always takes me a few posts before you actually read them and comprehend them. This thread is a perfect example. Let’s recap:

1. UnDunn says the Apple TV is “ill-equipped” to handle HD video downloads because of the size of the hard drive.

2. I point out that the hard drive on the Apple TV is twice the size as the hard drive on the Xbox 360 that UnDunn was touting for HD video downloading. I also state that with the Apple TV, you download it to your computer (which has more HD space) and stream it to the Apple TV.

3. informer replies that the hard drive on the Apple TV is too small, completely ignoring the previous statements about how you stream the video, so the hard drive is moot.

4. I tell informer, again, that the Apple TV is a media extender that streams video and point out that the Xbox 360 doesn’t stream the HD content UnDunn was touting. So in reality, it is the Xbox 360 that is “ill-equipped” and not the Apple TV.

5. UnDunn and informer both downplay the Xbox 360 as a “media player” and say “who cares?” because it’s primary function is a gaming console, which is a complete 180 from where UnDunn started.

Having said that, what is the HD in the ITV used for anyway?  A true media extender like my media player doesn’t have to have a hard disk in order to play videos. 

LOL! Seriously, informer, what is up with you? I’ve been telling you this this entire thread. How many times do I have to tell you that the Apple TV streams the content?

This is a joke, right?

Since when was I talking to you about HD space from the PC? 

Since you started talking about portable media players. Where is that content coming from?

Exactly.  What a lot of people don’t realise that the XBOX360 is already hackable to do more than advertised. 

LOL. Yes, you’ll need to hack your Xbox 360 because it’s “ill-equiped” with it’s tiny hard drive, right? Because the movies and TV shows you purchase from Xbox Live can’t be transferred to your computer, thus they will quickly fill up that small hard drive.

You wouldn’t want to purchase Microsoft’s expensive 120 gig Xbox 360 hard drive, right? That goes against the culture of upgradability the Windows fan boys have been preaching for years. Let’s hack that thing and void the warranty!

But again, the hard drive is not an issue on the Apple TV. I don’t need to hack an Apple TV. The Apple TV streams iTMS content from my computer.

You can’t say the 360 is “ill equipped” because of the hard drive because MS allows you to re-download any purchased content at anytime.  Given the streaming performance of the network and playback, its perfectly fine to just re-download the show when you want to watch it.

IMO, the 360 HD isn’t too small because of movies and TV shows (because the ecosystem is made to not require a large drive) but because of all the damn game demos and other content people store on their 360’s.  That’s why I want a bigger HD in my 360.

------
Xbox movies are also about 4 bucks in SD and 6 in HD.

You can keep a movie for 2 weeks but it expires 24 hours after you start to watch it.
------------------
The Treo is $650.

On Cingular.com right now:
Treo 680 = $299 with a 2 year contract… $100 rebate brings it to $199

Treo 750 = $499 w/2yr - $100 rebate = $399

Blackjack = $199 after rebate

IIRC all the Blackberries including the Pearl are $199 or less.

-------------

I think the iPhone is in a bit of an odd position in the market.  Generally, the purchases of high-end PDA/Smartphones in the 350+ range are done by business customers.
The iPhone is most definitely NOT a business oriented device.  The exclusion of enterprise email functionality (think Exchange, Outlook, Blackberry) and Office file compatibility is the most obvious weaknesses for business users.

So the odd question is if consumers will pay $499-$599 with a 2yr contract for this device.  Will Apple allow the price of the iPhone to drop the way most cellphone smartphones do or will they keep the same price for the duration of the model’s life?  Will the allow rebates?

I’m on Cingular so I can’t wait to get my hands on one.

You can’t say the 360 is “ill equippedâ€? because of the hard drive because MS allows you to re-download any purchased content at anytime. 

That’s a hassle. I’m not going to sit back and wait (30-50 minutes for HD movie?). I’d rather stream it from my Mac’s 500 gigs and not have to download it again and again.

Wouldn’t you rather purchase an HD movie via a Windows Media Center PC and then stream that to your Xbox 360 versus the Live business model?

On Cingular.com right now:
Treo 680 = $299 with a 2 year contract… $100 rebate brings it to $199

Yes, but what is the manufacturer’s price? Apple’s price isn’t inflated at all when you compare to the prices other manufacturers are charging for their devices. I don’t think Apple’s price is inflated. I don’t know if Cingular is going to offer rebates or not.

I think the Razr was $500 with a contract when it first hit.

So the odd question is if consumers will pay $499-$599 with a 2yr contract for this device.

I think they will sell what they project in 2007 - 10 million - if they don’t have supply problems.

That’s a hassle. I’m not going to sit back and wait (30-50 minutes for HD movie?). I’d rather stream it from my Mac’s 500 gigs and not have to download it again and again

This is basically what informer tried to call you out on. YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT.  You only need to download enough of the movie/show to buffer, then it will start playing.  Think: Youtube.  On my 360 and regular Comcast Cable connection (3mbps) it takes about 20-30 seconds at most.  Some stuff starts instantly.

Wouldn’t you rather purchase an HD movie via a Windows Media Center PC and then stream that to your Xbox 360 versus the Live business model?

Not really.  I don’t buy much stuff via the XBLM but when I do it’s almost always an impulse buy.  I’m sitting in the living room and want to play or watch something new.  No need to go to my computer (in another room), order the thing, and then go back and watch it in the living room.  Why not watch it/download it right to the 360.  Like I said, space isn’t an issue because you can alway re-download the movies/shows later.

2.  IIRC you can buy something via Cinemanow on you MCE PC and watch it on the 360.  I know you can access the entire Cinemanow experience via the 360 and order a movie… IIRC it then downloads to your PC and streams over.  I’ve never bought anything from CinemaNow though.

I think they will sell what they project in 2007 - 10 million - if they don’t have supply problems.

Where did you see them make that prediction?  The thing doesn’t come out until June, right?  10 million in 6 months?

Yes, but what is the manufacturer’s price?

Doesn’t matter.  $499 and $599 for the iPhone is WITH a 2 year contract.  The prices I gave for other smartphones was directly comparable to that.

I don’t know if Cingular is going to offer rebates or not.

They did go as far as to tell Cingular that they could not offer corporate discounts so it’s not unreasonable that they said no consumer rebates as well.  I hope that isn;t the case but it would be typical of Apple as they tell most major brick and motor stores that they can’t offer rebates on Macs (in the US).

This is basically what informer tried to call you out on.

The guy who kept saying the hard drive on the Apple TV is too small?

YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT.

Kuaidang, you really shouldn’t go there. Not you. Of all people, not you. You consistently spread FUD here. Tell us about the magical procedural synthesis that only Microsoft has. Tell us about how Apple is going to switch to Windows NT. Tell us about how they are going to switch back to PPC.

This is an example of you arguing for the sake of arguing because you are arguing the same exact point I’ve been arguing all along on this thread—that streaming movies don’t require a large hard drive.

And please don’t be offended if I don’t take your word that you can start watching an HD movie on your Xbox 360 30 seconds after you start downloading it. Oh wait, you didn’t say HD. You know we are talking about HD movies, right?

So who doesn’t know what he’s talking about? I know you can start watching as you are downloading, but you still have to wait a long time for an HD movie.

On my 360 and regular Comcast Cable connection (3mbps) it takes about 20-30 seconds at most.

What takes 20-30 seconds? Definitely not HD.

An HD movie is 4-6 gigs. At 360 kps download speed (3 Mbps), that would take you about 3.5 hours to download.

“XBox 360 Video Store FAQ: How Long to Download a Movie?”
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/xbox-360/360-m ovies-download-sloooooooow-216700.php

I’m in SF, on Comcast’s 6Mbit cable modem service. I started downloading Akira Kurosawa’s Dreams at 10PM PST. And an hour and a half later, I’m only 20% through. This is a standard def, 2 hour movie that weighs in at 1.3GB. The math: based on my 6mbit connection, I’m looking at about 7-8 hours of download. So, it seems the best strategy for buying and watching Xbox Live flicks is…

“Microsoft Responds to Slow Movie Download Issue”
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/top/microsoft- responds-to-slow-movie-download-issue-216788.php

The [Microsoft] rep went on to tell me that in a perfect world a two-hour HD movie would be about 5.85GB and, with a 6Mbps connection, should take about 2 1/2 hours to download. Fortunately, the service’s streaming technology should let you start watching the movie in about ten minutes or so. Of course all of that is based on a bunch of variables, so experiences won’t be the same for everyone.

So Microsoft is saying that “in a perfect world” you should be able to start watching a 2-hour HD movie 10 minutes after you start downloading it (assuming you have 5.85 gigs of space on your Xbox 360).

Is this another case where Microsoft is wrong about their own product and you are right, Kuaidang? Microsoft doesn’t know it only takes 20-30 seconds?

“My Xbox Live HD Video Rental Nightmare”
http://situationterminal.com/2006/11/23/my- xbox-360-video-rental-nightmare/

Then I notice that the file size is 6.1G!
Okay, not a huge problem. I spend some time cleaning out all the previous video downloads. Delete a demo or two. Dump about 400Mb worth of Oblivion saves (I save frequently).

http://forums.xbox.com/9627114/ShowPost.aspx

Now I have 7.1G free. I’m completely ready to rent!

Sure, it’s not “ill-equipped”. Not at all.

Again, I’d rather own the movie and be able to play it again and again without having to pay again and again. If you rent an Xbox 360 HD movie and watch it and then delete it, then want to watch it again 3 months later (or even 25 hours after you started watching it the first time), how much does it cost? How much does it cost to have it on another Xbox 360 in the house? $6 each 24 hour watching period? In fact, even if you just downloaded it on one Xbox 360 and paid your $6, but you want to watch it on another Xbox 360, you have to pay another $6, don’t you?

I’m glad to see Microsoft following the trend Apple created by offering TV shows to own.

Why not watch it/download it right to the 360.  Like I said, space isn’t an issue because you can alway re-download the movies/shows later.

Exactly, let’s dump all those Windows Media Center PCs you’ve been touting for years. Who needs them? It’s too big of a pain to get up off the couch and go to your PC to order a movie!

What happened to you touting the Windows Media Center PC and how you can easily put shows and movies on your portable media devices that you recorded on your Windows Media Center PC and how it takes little time to encode the high res shows for use on those portable devices? That’s not cool anymore since Macs are now doing that?

IIRC you can buy something via Cinemanow on you MCE PC and watch it on the 360.  I know you can access the entire Cinemanow experience via the 360 and order a movie… IIRC it then downloads to your PC and streams over.  I’ve never bought anything from CinemaNow though.

No kidding. That’s a much better solution, IMHO. I’d rather have all the photos and music and shows on one system and then stream it to media extenders.

Where did you see them make that prediction?

The keynote. 2008, not 2007. I keep forgetting it’s not 2006.

Jobs showed a slide that estimated the market for phones to be in the vicinity of 957 million units. “In 2008 we are going to try to grab 1 percent marketshare,” he said. “We think we’re going to have the best product in the world.”

Doesn’t matter. 

Yes, it does matter. That’s what I’m talking about, Apple’s price. I’m not discussing Cingular’s prices.

$499 and $599 for the iPhone is WITH a 2 year contract.  The prices I gave for other smartphones was directly comparable to that.

You can compare them all you want, but those prices aren’t the manufacturer’s price. I can buy it from Cingular without the contract and it jumps up to the price I gave because that’s how much the phone costs from the manufacturer.

You are arguing that the cost to the consumer is less with rebates. Yeah, no kidding. I can get an Epson printer for free with rebates if I buy a PC. But how much is Epson charging for the printer? How much is Apple charging for the iPhone? How much is Palm charging? Again, I don’t think Apple’s price is inflated.

Mac Fan, we understand you hate Microsoft and you hate Xbox and you love Apple

UnDunn, we understand you hate Apple and you hate Apple TV and you love Microsoft.

I mentioned the Xbox Live Video Marketplace as a point of reference and an example to make the point that there are things Apple didn’t announce that it might have.

Give it up. You were telling us all that you can download HD movies with your Xbox 360 and you can’t with the Apple TV. That was your only point. You are such a hypocrite, UnDunn.

You told us that the Apple TV is ill-equipped if Apple wants to start selling HD movies like Microsoft does with the Xbox 360. That’s what you said. You’re just pissed because I blew a giant hole in your anti-Apple rhetoric by pointing out that your beloved Xbox 360’s hard drive is half the size of the Apple TV’s and also that the Apple TV can stream movies from iTMS from multiple computers, making the hard drive moot, while the Xbox 360’s HD movies can’t be transferred.

The Apple TV is a media extender that has a hard drive too. Most media extenders don’t have a hard drive, including the standard Xbox 360. Give it up. The hard drive issue is moot.

Also, you guys were touting the Windows Media Center PC and media extender solution for a long time and now you are criticizing it saying you have to have your computer on all the time to stream that data, etc.? What a joke.

I probably won’t use the hard drive on the Apple TV. Maybe I will, maybe I won’t. So what? The fact is you were wrong when you said the Apple TV is ill-equipped for HD movies because of the hard drive space.

As for the iPhone pricing, the fact is a 2-year contract is worth at least $150 off the retail price of a phone.

OK, it’s $650, the same price as a Treo without a contract. I still don’t think it’s inflated.

Kuaidang, you really shouldn’t go there.

LOL.  Nothing you can say can take away from the fact that you said you have to wait 30-50 minutes for an HD movie with the 360.  It’s complete b.s.  You can bring up as many red-herrings as you want but you are simply wrong on that issue, period.

An HD movie is 4-6 gigs. At 360 kps download speed (3 Mbps), that would take you about 3.5 hours to download.

Didn’t realize that 3mbps was 360k.  If so then my connection is much faster.  I’ve hit over 1 MegaByte per second when downloading from Microsoft’s MSDN/Connect servers and over 700k (easy) downloading OpenSUSE 10.2 a while back.

Just ran a speed test @ bandwidthplace.com and got wildly ranging scores. 7.6 megabits per second is the fastest one so far (CNET has me at 2,000+ k per second).  That’s 1 mb in 1.1 seconds.  So 5.85gb’s would take a little over an hour.

10 minutes at that speed would be almost 600mb’s or half of a SD movie or two full thirty minute tv shows in SD.  So 30 seconds buffering time is perfectly reasonable.

Your links are no good anymore because they’re all describing launch day.  The service has been upgraded at least twice since then.

Again, I’d rather own the movie and be able to play it again and again without having to pay again and again.

You speak as if you’ve never rented anything before. Sure, if price wasn’t an issue (and I could have the movie on disc) then I’d rather own too.  But 360 movies cost much less than iTunes movies so the question is do you want to pay $10-20 dollars to own a movie from iTunes in SD or 4 bucks to rent it from the XBLM? No different than the Blockbuster/Netflix vs Best Buy issue that consumers deal with every day.  Both renting and buying have their place and there’s no point in you treating rentals like some completely absurd concept when we all know it’s not.

Exactly, let’s dump all those Windows Media Center PCs you’ve been touting for years. Who needs them? It’s too big of a pain to get up off the couch and go to your PC to order a movie!

Why bother getting off the couch to order the movie when I can order it from the couch? You’re not making any sense any more.

What happened to you touting the Windows Media Center PC and how you can easily put shows and movies on your portable media devices that you recorded on your Windows Media Center PC and how it takes little time to encode the high res shows for use on those portable devices? That’s not cool anymore since Macs are now doing that?

I wasn’t aware that Macs did that (without EyeTV and other assorted addon’s). I know Apple gives you the ability to BUY shows and movies but maybe you can enlighten us on their plans for RECORDING content.  I mean, no way did you just forget that the original headlining feature of MCE was that it actually had DVR capabilites, right?

I’m glad to see Microsoft following the trend Apple created by offering TV shows to own.

LOL.  You do realize that Apple released a Smartphone and a Media Center Extender, right?

You told us that the Apple TV is ill-equipped if Apple wants to start selling HD movies like Microsoft does with the Xbox 360.

Microsoft doesn’t sell movies, they rent them.  That’s a key difference.  You never want to delete something you buy from the iTMS so you need (want) much more space than you would if you only were going to have the movie for a short time.

Also, you guys were touting the Windows Media Center PC and media extender solution for a long time and now you are criticizing it saying you have to have your computer on all the time to stream that data, etc.? What a joke

Who made that arguement?  Leaving something on to stream data from it just makes sense.  Again, who made that arguement?

Nothing you can say can take away from the fact that you said you have to wait 30-50 minutes for an HD movie with the 360.  It’s complete b.s. 

No it’s not. I’ve given you several links to posts by users and by reviewers talking about the download times.

What is complete BS is that you are waiting 20-30 seconds for a 4.5-6 gig HD movie. Now that I pointed out your stated connection speed couldn’t possibly do it, you are now changing your mind and telling us you have a 7 Mbps connection speed.

That’s BS.

10 minutes at that speed would be almost 600mb’s or half of a SD movie or two full thirty minute tv shows in SD

As always, you change your argument. We are discussing HD, not SD. HD is 4.5-6 gigs.

Again, according to Microsoft, in a perfect world, you wait 10 minutes. Unfortunately, it’s not a perfect world.

Your links are no good anymore because they’re all describing launch day.

Xbox Forums dated 1-15-2007:
http://forums.xbox.com/9627114/ShowPost.aspx

I can’t believe how long I’m waiting for a download of SPACE COWBOYS!!!  I just wanted to try the service and get a cheap HD movie and I’ve been downloading for TWO DAYS now and I’m still only at 80%!!!  I will finish with this download, but it is the last download I will purchase until they get stuff figured out.  It’s a GREAT idea to have this content, but anything past an overnight time period is just stupid.  The movie is 5.9 gb...so it is a large file, but this long is rediculous.  I hope MS can get this fixed in one way or another. - bigdog51421

I’m dying to figure out what the causes of these slow downloads are. I had a 1.5 DSL connection that ran flawlessy, and all of my content would be downloaded on time - I’d download 1MB in roughly 5.5 seconds. I upgraged to cable 8Mb (same provider), but now I only see 3Mb downloads - 1MB in roughly 2.75 seconds. I know not to expect consistency from cable, but thing is, I consistently download at exactly 3Mb/s. Which is weird. It’s not the full speed I’d like to see from Xbox Live, but I can download most SD movies in under 2 hours. Superman took an hour and fourty four minutes in SD.

I think it has to do with our providers (grande communications here), their networks, and backbones they use. Or maybe the XBL team has limits on how fast we can download the content? - Twelve Large

Superman Returns HD (7 GB) took me about 30 hours to download over DSL.  I agree this is ridiculous. - WB Nator

YOU CAN WATCH THE MOVIE WHILE IT DOWNLOADS

And what happenes when the watching surpasses what is downloaded. For most of us 2-3 days is the norm for downloading HD. So if you start your movie, do you think it will all be downloaded before the 2 hours are up. NO! And to top it off your 24 hour clock is now ticking. Many who have went this route had their time period expire before the movie finished downloading. - Kush NJ

YOU CAN WATCH THE MOVIE WHILE IT DOWNLOADS

This is true. I was actually prompted that I could watch the Superman movie (standard def) a few minutes after it started downloading. - Twelve Large

I have not downloaded any HD Movies but I’ve downloaded a few CSI-HD episodes and those took at least 3hrs to complete. - HighDef Edition

Superman Returns now on Xbox Live Video Marketplace
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/01/01/superm an-returns-now-on-xbox-live-video-marketplace/#c omments
January 2nd, 2007:

Ok, so I decided to d/load this last night.

HDTV - Check
12 Meg download pipe - check
lots o MS points - Check

5 hours later I was still only at 30%.. grr.. MS should implement a pre-cache option for movies you may want to watch so you can cache some data before you purchase a video.. or maybe.. use some of that Super wmv streaming capabilities we always hear so much about.

I dunno.. I love the Idea, but the implementation still has some bugs that will never surpas VOD, or cable/satellite offerings. It removes the capability for an impulse buy..

HDTV - Check
12 Meg download pipe - check
lots o MS points - Check

Maybe not 12 MB but I started yesterday around 2pm and when I woke up this morning the 360 was off. I do have a 6 hour sleep for it but I thought the DL would keep it active. It was still going when I went to bed last night round 11pm. It was still only at 30% as well. I guess too many people are trying to get it?

http://forums.xbox.com/9265684/ShowPost.aspx
January 14th, 2007

Well glad to see I am not the only one, it took me about 2 days and tonight I got 55 min into the movie before I got the code 69-00-80070057.

I sent an email to support has anyone had any luck with email, I hate calling outside the country, *** my wife is from India and she hates it to!

I just don’t believe that you can count on downloading an HD movie and being able to watch it 20-30 seconds after it starts downloading. You are saying I don’t know what I’m talking about, but then you qualify that with “Well, if you download it at 1 meg per second, then you can do it...”

Everyone here has experience with the Internet and has tried watching a live keynote from Gates or Jobs, or even a recorded one, at the same time lots of other people are doing it and we all have seen the delays over the Internet.

The idea that I can stream a 6 gig file after only 20-30 seconds of buffering is complete and total BS.

I said 10-50 minutes. For many people, it’s hours. You want to argue semantics and nit-pick to have something to stand on, that’s fine. None of that has anything to do with my original point which is, compared to the Apple TV, the Xbox 360 is ill-equipped to play downloaded HD movies.

You speak as if you’ve never rented anything before.

No, I was responding to your point that you don’t need a large hard drive because you can delete it and download it again as many times as you want. I was pointing out that you have to pay each time. I also pointed out that you can’t transfer to other Xbox 360s or even to your computer to bring with you. You ignored those points.

I’m not going to get in an argument about renting versus owning because it’s a red herring.

Why bother getting off the couch to order the movie when I can order it from the couch? You’re not making any sense any more.

You can only order what XBLM offers you. The problem is what you order from your Xbox 360 can’t be transferred to any other room in the house, can’t be put on any other device, can’t be backed up...all those wonderful things you were touting with the Windows Media Center PC when it fit your agenda.

Now your agenda is to tout the Xbox 360 and it can’t do those things, so you have done a 180, which is typical of you. You often argue both sides of an issue.

I wasn’t aware that Macs did that (without EyeTV and other assorted addon’s).

I didn’t say without EyeTV, did I? I said “now that Macs are doing that”. It’s amazing how you can actually imagine something I said and then start arguing semantics over it. It’s like you are arguing with yourself.

I know Apple gives you the ability to BUY shows and movies but maybe you can enlighten us on their plans for RECORDING content.  I mean, no way did you just forget that the original headlining feature of MCE was that it actually had DVR capabilites, right?

LOL! Yeah, wouldn’t it be great if XBLM content (TV shows you own, movies you rent) could integrate with that great Windows Media Center PC?

LOL.  You do realize that Apple released a Smartphone and a Media Center Extender, right?

Yes, but I wasn’t the one who said those wouldn’t be a trend and that nobody would follow, did I? That was you when Apple started selling TV shows. Since then, many different companies are now selling TV shows, including Microsoft.

And where is Microsoft’s phone?

And media extenders? We don’t want media extenders. We want to download content to our Xbox 360s and then delete it to make room for more content.

Microsoft doesn’t sell movies, they rent them.  That’s a key difference.  You never want to delete something you buy from the iTMS so you need (want) much more space than you would if you only were going to have the movie for a short time.

You’ve already admitted the hard drive is an issue. Jesus! You aren’t even consistent in the same thread.

There is no space issue with iTMS because you download to your computer with a much more storage space and not a game console that is ill-equipped because of a small hard drive.

Who made that arguement?  Leaving something on to stream data from it just makes sense.

Your rebuttal to my assertion is that the Apple TV can also stream media, which is fine. But you may wind up with a situation where you don’t know what is stored on the device and what will be streamed from the computer, which realistically means you will have to leave the computer on 24/7 in order to have access to all of your media whenever you want.

This whole thread boils down to one thing—the Apple TV’s hard drive is not too small because it’s able to stream, and transfer, content from your computer’s much larger hard drive. That’s it.

What’s crazy is all three of the usual suspects on this thread (UnnDunn, Kuaidang, informer) know it’s not an issue because they have been touting this very same media extender solution for a very long time with Windows Media Center PCs. But now Apple has done it and all-of-a-sudden there’s something wrong with it.

UnnDunn, you wouldn’t store your music library on the Apple TV. You would stream it.

You people need to let it go. Every time Apple has a keynote, you guys piss all over it.

The Mac’s market share went up again:

Apple on Wednesday posted a record-breaking $1 billion profit on record revenue of $7.1 billion for the first fiscal quarter of 2007 ended December 30, 2006. Earnings per share for the quarter were $1.14.

These results compare to revenue of $5.7 billion and net quarterly profit of $565 million, or $.65 per diluted share, in the year-ago quarter.

Apple said it shipped 1,606,000 Macintosh computers and 21,066,000 iPods during the quarter, representing 28 percent growth in Macs and 50 percent growth in iPods over the year-ago quarter. International sales accounted for 42 percent of the quarter’s revenue, according to the company.