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Mac Pro vs Dell Precision: The REAL price comparison [UPDATED x2]
It is very apt that he calls his post "A Price Comparison" because that's all it is. It isn't correct and it isn't a direct comparison
On my morning rounds of the blogs I frequent I came across a rather interesting read by a Mr Paul Thurrott: Mac Pro vs. Dell Precision: A price comparison. Now of course, Apple has been touting that the Mac Pro is far cheaper than a comparable Dell, but Mr Thurrott has managed to prove otherwise by getting a Dell to be $1279 cheaper than an equivalent Mac Pro. Unfortunately for Mr Thurrott he misses some important components.
Now I have already emailed him about the problems I’m going to point out to you now, but as I only receive replies to half the emails I send to him pointing out errors and hardly any of these result in changes (I’ve not seen any changes to the factual errors I pointed out to him in his Leopard preview article on winsupersite.com) I’ve decided to post this to show where he slips up. First off, let’s look at the prices he finds:
Systems
Dell Precision Workstation 490 (32-bit) = $3,670
Apple Mac Pro = $4949
Dell price advantage = $1279
That seems to destroy Apple’s entire “cheaper than Dell” theory, or does it. It is very apt that he calls his post “A Price Comparison” because that’s all it is. It isn’t correct and it isn’t a direct comparison. While he says he has matched the same ram, video card and hard drive he hasn’t matched the same processors, so let’s spec out the correct Precision to compare to the Mac Pro:
Which Precision Model?
Paul uses the Precision 490, which was initially used with this comparison, but thanks to one of the comments it has become apparent that the 690 should be used in order to offer the 4 drive bays and the ability to have a 1 KiloWatt powersupply
Processors
Two 3GHz Dual Core Intel Xeon. As Mr Thurrott kindly points out, Dell offers a much wider range of processors ranging from 1.6GHz to 3.7GHz. What he fails to mention is that the 3.2GHz and 3.7GHz processors are actually in the 5000 series and so have smaller L2 caches and slower FSBs. There’s also conveniently two 3GHz Xeons, a 5050 with 2 x 2MB L2 cache and a 667MHz FSB and a 5160 with a 4MB L2 cache and a 1.33GHz FSB. Of course in support of a fair comparison we should use the 5160, which is used in the Mac Pro, which unfortunately for Mr Thurrott is $930 more expensive than the processor he choose. Of course that’s just for one of them, so add another $930 for the second processor
Operating System
In order to have the ability to upgrade to over 4GB of ram you have to include XP x64.
Ram
If you are speccing out the ram make sure you switch the Dell to the 677MHz Ram as this is what the Mac Pro uses. We are using 1GB which is the lowest amount either machine allows (and also because Apple’s ram prices are stupidly high).
Hard Disk
The default dell configuration has an 80GB hard disk so make sure you upgrade that to a 250GB hard disk to match the Mac Pro
Graphics Card
Both machines have been upgraded to the NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500 graphics card with 512MB of ram. This is the most powerful both machines offer.
Optical Drive
The Dell’s optical drive has to be upgraded to the 16x DVD +/- RW drive, which is the closest to the SuperDrive in the Mac Pro
Display
The Mac Pro doesn’t come with a display, but you get a 19” Dell display included in the price of the Precision. The monitor is available here for $247 so we can add that to the price of the Mac Pro.
Ports
The Dell has 8 USB 2.0 ports to the Mac Pro’s 5 and also has more legacy ports (serial, parallel, PS/2). However the Mac Pro has better audio ports, a second ethernet port and 2 firewire 800 ports. Make sure you add a Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic sound card under the audio section and the second ethernet port under the PCI-E network adaptor page.
Warranty
The Dell comes with a 3 year on site warranty. To match this we’ve included AppleCare for the Mac Pro.
Shipping
Apple provides free shipping on the Mac Pro compared to the $30 that Dell charges.
So, what are the final totals in this comparison:
Dell Precision Workstation 690 = $6,235
Apple Mac Pro = $5,745
Dell price advantage = -$490
Not hugely cheaper but not miles more expensive as Mr Thurrott suggested. So, there you have it, the real comparison between the Mac Pro and Dell Precision 490, hopefully Mr Thurrott will correct the mistakes in his post soon.
Update: It seems that Paul has updated his post to take into account the processors. However his comparison still fails to take into account the monitor and warranty with the Mac Pro and the firewire card, sound card and shipping with the Precision
Update 2: After reading John Gruber’s rebuttal I’ve realised that I should have included the 64 bit version of Windows. While the Dell wins here by having a fully 64 bit OS compared to Tiger’s half complete 64 bit implementation (Leopard will offer a full 64 bit), the 32 bit version of Windows can only access up to 4GB of ram, not the full 16GB offered by Tiger. Also thanks to Swordmaker for pointing out that I should have used the Precision 690 as a base instead of the 490 as this has a comparable power supply and also the 4 drive bays. Due to using the 690 I have also added a second ethernet port to the Dell and upgraded the Mac Pro’s ram to 2GB and changed the monitor to a 19” 1907FP
More Info
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thinkback
Also ignored is the software that is either included or that need to make the system operational. While some may dismiss the inclusion of iLife, the cost of the extra antiviral, anti-spyware and firewall should not. A parsimonious as I am in using the free applications in this category (spybot, adaware, highjackthis, zone alarm, etc.), I have certainly spent far far more that $49 in eliminating and preventing these pest, and that is not counting my time spent in removing malware.
Price, price, price!?! Why is everything about price? If price was the only criteria, we’d all be driving Kias or Yugos.
Here’s a better comparison - http://www.systemshootouts.org/shootouts/de sktop/2006/0809_dt3200.html
Good job!
Paul claims he likes Apple and isn’t a Microsoft/PC cheerleader. Ha!
He says Dell gets the advantage in displays because Dell’s displays are cheaper...like you can’t buy a Dell display for your Mac! LOL!
He then turns around and states that Dell doesn’t offer the same optical drive, but you can go out and get one for the Dell for little money. Ha!
I’m concerned about Dell’s quality control with them having to recall 4.1 Sony batteries. 
| Aug. 18, 2006 | ||
| 8:47 am |
The article is about price purely as that is what Paul talks about. All credit to him though, while he does come across as bashing Apple he does make quite a few good points.
I also agree that buying a computer is more about price. It’s nice that Macs are just as good as their PC counter parts price wise, however I would gladly pay more to use a Mac, because it’s what I prefer
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| Aug. 18, 2006 | |
| 8:50 am |
Mr Paul Thurrott and you have both made another comparison error in configuring the Dell. The Dell Precision 490 is not the base platform to use to start this comparison.
The Mac Pro has a ~1400 Watt power supply that will drive graphic cards for up to 4 monitors (I have read the Mac Pro will actually support 8 monitors!) and also supply sufficient power for up to 16GB of RAM. The 490’s 750W power supply is simply insufficient to match the Mac’s capabilities. You have to step up to the Dell Precision 690 to be able to upgrade the power supply to 1000W. That adds $470 to the Dell to match the Mac.
Another reason you have to upgrade the Dell to the 690 is that the 490 allows only 3 HD… the Mac has space for 4.
You are also right about Thurott error to limit the Dell to 32 bit. In just a few months the Mac Pro buyers will be upgrading to the fully 64bit OS X.5 leopard…
Oh, and add the cost of the 490 to 690 upgrade… another $250 making a total of $720 to get sufficient power.
One thing everyone seems to be missing is that “comparing” the OS’s is stupid. The Mac Pro can run Windows *also*, so that’s clearly an advantage in Apple’s favor, no matter what.
THis must be the 4th or 5th blog that I’ve seen trying to compare these 2 systems.
Unfortunately Apple will always be more expensive for what you get.
Always have, and always will :-D
What you have always got for the ‘more expensive’ system is quality. You get what you pay for. Obviously informer does not care for quality and would quite happily shell out for new equipment far more regularly than he would if he’she had a quality Apple computer.
I am using a 6 year old Power Mac for production work and only now is it getting a little tired.
So who really has the more expensive system for what you get. (It ain’t me)
informer said: ‘Unfortunately Apple will always be more expensive for what you get. Always have, and always will’
Could somebody please help this poor misguided soul? It’s heartbreaking in todays society that people like informer can’t add.
The old adage still holds true - Folks like informer know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
No matter how you slice and dice it, in the instance of a Mac Pro and a Dell 690 (yes, I know Mr. Thurrot compared a 490 but we all know that that’s an unfair and uneven compairson), with the same CPUs, same video cards, same amount of RAM, same number and capacity HDs, etc., etc., etc., the Dell costs significantly more.
OK, here’s the summary:
From the Dell store -
Dell Precision Workstation 690 (1KW - 64bit)
Dual Core Intel® Xeon® Processor 5160 3.00GHz, 4MB L2,1333
Operating System Genuine Windows® XP Professional, x64 Edition with Media
2nd Processor Dual Core Intel® Xeon® Processor 5160 3.00GHz, 4MB L2,1333
Memory 2GB, DDR2 SDRAM FBD Memory, 667MHz, ECC in Riser (2 DIMMS)
Keyboard Dell USB Enhanced Multimedia Keyboard with built-in 2-port USB Hub
Monitors No Monitor Option
Graphic Cards 512MB PCIe x16 nVidia Quadro FX 4500, Dual DVI or Dual VGA or DVI + VGA
250GB SATA 3.0Gb/s,7200 RPM Hard Drive with 8MB DataBurst Cache™
Hard Drive Configuration C1 All SATA drives, Non-RAID, 1 or 2 drive total configuration
No Floppy Drive
Dell USB 2-Button Optical Mouse with Scroll
Broadcom NetXtreme 10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet controller-PCI Express card
16XDVD AND 16XDVD+/-RW, w/ Cyberlink PowerDVD™ and Roxio Creator™
Sound Blaster® X-Fi™ XtremeMusic (D), w/Dolby® Digital 5.1
No Speaker option
No Resource CD
Hard Drive Internal Controller Option SATA/SAS Integrated Card - For Connecting Internal Hard Drives
3 Year Business Essential Plan
No Onsite System Setup
TOTAL:$6,621.00
From the Apple Store -
Mac Pro
Two 3GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon 5160 4MB L2,1333
2GB (4 x 512MB) DDR2 SDRAM FBD Memory, 667MHz,
250GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500 512MB, Stereo 3D (2 x dual-link DVI)
One 16x SuperDrive
Apple Keyboard and Mighty Mouse - U.S. English
Mac OS X - U.S. English
Total $5,249.00
These are equally configured computers.
It does appear that the Mac Pro is less expensive than the Dell.
Dru: in all fairness you are missing out the fact that the dell comes with a free 19” monitor (at a value of $247) plus it has 3 years care so you have to add the Apple care. You have also added two drives to the Dell, you want the 16xDVD+/- RW to match the superdrive in the Mac Pro. If you spec them as identically as possible you should get around the prices that I’ve got above
Informer: I want you to prove this:
“Unfortunately Apple will always be more expensive for what you get.”
Spec out an equal Dell and Mac Pro and make it more expensive. And don’t start adding dual 30” monitors and 16GB of ram, we both know that Apple over charges for these and anyone in their right mind buys there ram from a 3rd party rather than Apple
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| Aug. 19, 2006 | |
| 3:46 am |
A good read.
Pilky - The 19” ‘free’ monitor’s price was deducted from the cost when I configured the Dell system. I also deducted the cost of a floppy drive and speakers.
To match the standard equipment of the Mac Pro, I upgraded the 80GB HD to a 250GB drive, upgraded the standard Dell keyboard and mouse to the Enhanced Keyboard (because it, like the Mac keyboard, included 2 USB ports), and a optical scroll mouse. I added a Gigabit ethernet card to supplement the on-board ethernet subsystem (because the Mac has 2 x 1 Gigabit built-in). I upgraded the 48x CD-R to a 16x CD-RW/DVD-RW. And lastly I added the Soundblaster card to approach the digital sound that the Mac is capable of producing.
If you want to add the monitors back in, fine, use the same monitor on both sides of the equation. The Mac is perfectly happy using a Dell monitor.
As far as the warranty, OK ya got me. I’ll add $250 to the Mac for an additional 3 years of service.
So the score now stands -
Dell - $6621.00
Apple - $5498.00
“Dell price advantage”
You mean “Apple price advantage”
I’m still trying to figure out where you get your extra $400 from. The only difference I can see is the keyboard, which I left as the default and that’s with the free monitor and shipping included. I did add the dell monitor to the Mac Pro price as well.
pwb: If you notice, the Dell price advantage is negative
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| Aug. 19, 2006 | |
| 11:43 am |
I have priced comparable Mac and Dell systems across the model spectrum, and Macs are always competitive. However there is a big gap between the MacPro and the iMac into which several Dell models fit.
I’m not switching to Windows but can see where if you need more than an iMac and less than a MacPro, it could be less expensive to go that way. It’s the same if you need something less than an iMac. But Linux makes the Dell’s even cheaper. If you want to quote price you have to take the OS into consideration too.
Well it used to be that a similar equipted Dell computer was about the same as a Mac in most cases.
Now in this case the Mac is cheaper than the similar Dell.
But this dwarfs the big picture, which is:
Dells still have a broader range of configuration options and Mac’s do not.
Apple’s RAM is ridicously overpriced and there isn’t sufficiant third party video card or PCI upgrade options for Mac’s.
A wise Windows PC buyer will not give up all their options of choice to save a few hundred dollars on a new machine if they plan to run Windows anyway.
Oh was the cost of a Windows license added to the Mac?
What is the purpose of this comparison? To undercut Dell right? To sell Mac hardware to Windows users right?
Why throw down the gauntlet and challenge Dell?
That’s Dell’s market, Windows users. If Apple is underpricing Dell to steal customers, Apple has to also compete with Dell on configuration options and third party upgrade options. Two areas where it fails and why most Windows PC users won’t consider buying a Mac to run Windows.
Am I making sense? Let me make my point clearer.
A Mac user upgrading has a investment in software already and will buy the Mac Pro even if it’s $500 more expensive than a similar equipted Dell.
A wise Windows user who is considering a Mac Pro to run Windows because it’s $500 cheaper than a similar Dell won’t do so and forsake all the hardware choice and configration options Dell provides.
Michael - Mac mini at $599/$799. iMacs at $1299/$1699. Mac Pros start at $2199. Gaps? Sure. But what’s your point? Every manufacturer/retailer has gaps in their product line. Apple, for example, has nothing below $599. They have, in fact, conceeded the low dollar, low profit, loss-leader computer segment to the Dells and HPs of the world.
Speed Daemon - The point of the article is historically Dells (and PCs in general) have been less expensive than Macs. With Apple’s migration to industry standard components (USB, ATA and SATA drives, etc), and to the Intel CPUs that price gap has vanished.
Given that Macs can run both Mac OS X and Windows operating systems and that the underlying components are the same, many Windows users are starting to question the validity of remaining with a monosystemed computer. The flip side of that is that many Mac users who have been forced to purchase a 2nd computer to run their Windows programs or games, now have an opportunity to purchase one incredibly fast machine that will run both systems.
The point you raised about the plethora of Dell configurations isn’t relevant. Nor is the seeming lack of
third party hardware and RAM for the Mac Pro. [Actually I’m surprised that you didn’t include lack of software for the Mac, too] The machine has been out less than a month. Give the 3rd party guys a break. They’ll catch up in a month or so. Have faith.
The last point you make is that Mac users will stay will Macs and Windows users will stay with Windows because of the (sometimes) considerable investment they’ve already made in their computer systems. Perhaps. But I know far too many indivdules and companies that after far more consideration than either you or I could give, have come to the realization that it’s time to leave the world of Windows and migrate to Mac.
Dell’s prices on the low end will have to come up, in my opinion.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/08/17/busi ness/hp.php
Dell, the world’s largest personal computer maker, said Thursday that second-quarter profit slumped after it cut prices to spur sales. The company also said the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission was investigating its financial reporting.
Net income fell to $502 million from $1.02 billion a year earlier, Dell, which is based in Round Rock, Texas, said. Sales rose 5 percent to $14.1 billion, the slowest sales growth in more than four years. Profit met Dell’s reduced forecast.
Profit cut by 50%. Wow.
Apple had a profit of $472 million last quarter, BTW.
| Aug. 19, 2006 | ||
| 3:01 pm |
Thanks for doing all that leg work. I’ve been bragging about the cheaper Mac Pro but haven’t been able to really back up my bragging rights other than “Apple Says So.”
informer said: ‘Unfortunately Apple will always be more expensive for what you get. Always have, and always will’
Could somebody please help this poor misguided soul? It’s heartbreaking in todays society that people like informer can’t add.
The old adage still holds true - Folks like informer know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
No matter how you slice and dice it, in the instance of a Mac Pro and a Dell 690 (yes, I know Mr. Thurrot compared a 490 but we all know that that’s an unfair and uneven compairson), with the same CPUs, same video cards, same amount of RAM, same number and capacity HDs, etc., etc., etc., the Dell costs significantly more.
Who the hell are you?
I have time and time again posted comparison from mp3 players to monitors and Apple had never been affordable or reliable for that matter.
Apple can never be cheaper or more reliable because they are living life day to day. Sorry that’s just simple facts that everybody knows.
Price, price, price!?! Why is everything about price? If price was the only criteria, we’d all be driving Kias or Yugos.
In a way I would agree, but why should I buy a bottle of water from Hilton hotel at $10 when I can get it from 7-11 for $1?
Oh yeah, because its Hilton hotel.
I think a lot of people forget the essential reason why they get a computer, for it to support former current and future applications. If you can get a computer that can support the thousands of software and of course the games then that is a PC worth investing in.
Hey investment! Now I know why so many businesses use PCS!
1.
Paul apparently has changed his info, and begrudgingly states that Apple is cheaper. Keep on top of these turds. They fear the Mac.