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journal: mac
No Vista for Macintels
Microsoft has announced that it will not support EFI in the first versions of Windows Vista, due out at the end of this year. The first version of Windows that will support it will be the first version of Longhorn Server. EFI may find it’s way into a later version of Vista but it will never work on the 32 bit version, ruling out the new Macintels. And Microsoft’s reason for not supporting EFI? A lack of support for it from hardware manufacturers.
Deep Thought’s take: Microsoft killing off features from Vista? Normally we’d joke about it but this is a huge loss to Mac users. Microsoft’s reasoning also sucks. Who is going to support EFI in new machines if the OS they use doesn’t support it. If Microsoft added EFI support to Vista from the get go then the hardware manufacturers would be able to support it.
More Info
Microsoft bombshell: no EFI support for Vista
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thinkback
Deep Thought’s take: Microsoft killing off features from Vista? Normally we’d joke about it but this is a huge loss to Mac users. Microsoft’s reasoning also sucks. Who is going to support EFI in new machines if the OS they use doesn’t support it. If Microsoft added EFI support to Vista from the get go then the hardware manufacturers would be able to support it.
There are more X86 operating systems than just Windows and the Mac OS. Any hardware manufacturer could have choosen to support EFI because of the Linux or *BSD but they have not done so.
I think what Microsoft doesn’t want happening is people buy Vista and a Mac, then switch entirely to the Mac.
I don’t think Microsoft cares very much about people switching to the Mac OS. It isn’t happening in any numbers significant enough to make a blip on their radar and there are dozens of other competiting products that are bigger threats to MS (whereas the Mac OS isn’t really a threat).
I bet the only people requesting EFI support are those people likely to buy a Mactel… which is a really small percentage of the computing market (about 2%). Therefore such a feature should take a backseat to most other features in Vista.
Alternatively one could say that Apple doesn’t support BIOS because they don’t want you to buy a copy of Windows (or Linux) and/or possibly switch to PC… especially given the fact that they’ve known for years that Windows uses BIOS exclusively and they choose to exclude it from their computers. But of course, you guys are MAc zealots and would never blame Apple for such a thing.
| Mar. 10, 2006 | ||
| 1:28 pm |
Alternatively one could say that Apple doesn’t support BIOS because they don’t want you to buy a copy of Windows (or Linux) and/or possibly switch to PC
Nah, Apple’s too smug for that. 
| Nick | Mar. 10, 2006 | |
| 2:11 pm |
There are more X86 operating systems than just Windows and the Mac OS. Any hardware manufacturer could have choosen to support EFI because of the Linux or *BSD but they have not done so.
Why do you think that Longhorn server is gonna be the first version of Windows to support EFI? Could it be because Microsoft doesn’t control as much of the server market as UNIX/Linux and so hardware manufacturers have started adopting it for servers. Remember, while MS has 95% of the OS market share then they pretty much dictate hardware advancement. If MS doesn’t support something then it won’t get added to hardware.
As for Apple not adding the EFI compatibility stuff, of course I’m annoyed at that. If I could run Windows natively I would do, but I can’t, because of Apple not supporting BIOS compatibility and Microsoft planning to never support EFI.
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| Mar. 10, 2006 | |
| 3:59 pm |
I’m not sure what the big deal is. Nobody aside from wishful-thinking end users has ever said that it will be possible to dual-boot Windows and Mac OS X together.
It has never happened to this point to date (save possibly for some wacky hackers out there), and it’s not something likely to happen any time soon.
Where’s the shock value there? I see nothing.
To repeat: The only people shocked here are the wishful thinkers who created the idea in their heads in the first place. Nobody from Apple, MS or Intel ever said: “Oh just wait, you’ll be able to dual-boot them sometime.”
Schiller said they wouldn’t ever preclude this from happening, but that doesn’t mean anyone said: “yes, you can do it”
And the wishful thinkers went wild with it, of course, assuming you could just do it. Here’s an example…
http://www.digg.com/apple/You_CAN_dual-boot _Windows_on_the_new_Intel-based_Macs_
Prudence. Patience. Reality. All say there’s no reason to assume you could ever do this in the first place… Until it happens, it shouldn’t be a shock. It’ll be more of a shock when it happens.
Well I’m gonna try installing Windows 98 in Q tomorrow and seeing if that will run at a reasonable speed. If Q ends up offering near native speeds, which is what the developers are hoping to do in a future release, then it could offer a better experience by allowing you to boot Windows in a window and keep OS X running, much like VPC but faster.
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| Mar. 10, 2006 | |
| 6:16 pm |
Okay Pilky, lets get a few things straight:
1. The first version of Windows to support EFI appeared 5 years ago.
2. Intel, the creator of EFI, has (had) over 80% marketshare in the chip market so they dictated the advancement of this technology not Microsoft. Even the desktop systems Intel has shipped that are EFI capable have that feature disabled.
3. Longhorn Server is going to be the first version of Vista to support EFI because it’s primarily a server technology (as dictated by Intel).
If Apple really gave a shiznit about you having Windows compatibility then they would have given you a modified version of WINE or free virtual machine like Bochs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bochs
Note: Microsoft gives Services For Unix away for free and will have a special version of Vista with Virtual PC Express bundled.
| Mar. 10, 2006 | ||
| 9:16 pm |
Meh, I couldn’t care less about booting Windows on a Mac. As long as there’s some sort of virtualization for those who need to run the occasional Windows app (WINE or VPC or whatever), I’m happy.
| Nick | Mar. 10, 2006 | |
| 10:38 pm |
The tables have turned.
Want Windows? Get a PC.
Ah yes, we need to switch to a PC to get an OS with Quartz Extreme, Widgets, live updating Dock icons, Spotlight, transparent menus, Smart Folders, parental controls, iDVD, iCal, Mail, iPhoto. 
| Mar. 11, 2006 | ||
| 6:25 pm |
I think dumping BIOS is long overdue.
The reason the Mac only needs me to press the C key to boot from the CD versus having to go through 1970’s function key-drive menus is because it isn’t using BIOS.
Target disk mode rocks. Modern.
I too think this decision has nothing to do with Apple and has more to do with Microsoft’s ineptness. In my opinion, Microsoft would be happy to sell a couple million copies of Windows to Mac users. They do it with VPC, don’t they?
| Mar. 11, 2006 | ||
| 6:31 pm |
Alternatively one could say that Apple doesn’t support BIOS because they don’t want you to buy a copy of Windows (or Linux) and/or possibly switch to PC
Nah, they just want retain the Mac experience. They want something better.
| Mar. 11, 2006 | ||
| 6:35 pm |
That’s because there are supposed to be four exclamation marks in the URL.
| Mar. 12, 2006 | |
| Arden | 2:08 am |
1.
The tables have turned.
Want Windows? Get a PC.
I think what Microsoft doesn’t want happening is people buy Vista and a Mac, then switch entirely to the Mac.