Awesome alliteration as always.

It’s not going to happen. Apple won’t give us DVR capabilities because they want to sell us TV shows.

It’s not going to happen. Apple won’t give us DVR capabilities because they want to sell us TV shows. 

If they can’t get more TV shows and networks aboard their iTunes Video store then I could see it happening.  I just don’t see both a video store (with a lot of TV content) and a good DVR machine working together.

If they do do this then I’d rather they include FrontRow 2.0 in iLife or with the OS.  Having to buy new hardware to get new media center capabilites is dumb IMO.  It was dumb when MS did it and it would be dumb if Apple did it.

But it’s interesting to see that Apple (or at least the Apple rumors) are now following more trends than they are creating.  When the average PC price moved down to $500-700, Apple followed with the Mini.  Now that most laptop sales are well under $1000 rumors are that Apple will release a cheaper iBook.  Shortly after Media Center sales skyrocketed Apple released Frontrow, which “insiders” say was made by a small crew in a few days.  Not long after the PSP and UMD put portable video on the map in a large way, Apple followed with the iPod Video.
Soon after Longhorn brought desktop search, xml based virtual folders, and virtual burn lists to the forefront… Tiger followed.  And now the rumors around leopard are that it will include animated icons, animated desktop pictures, a new file browser with extensibilty, file previews, and spotlight based file browsing… All of which are Vista CTP (and Longhorn before that) features.

And now they’re switching to X86…

Apple has basically become MSN… whatever they can’t innovate (which isn’t much) they copy or respond to fast.  Hopefully, some of that MSN/Apple ability to copy and respond to other stuff fast rubs off on the Windows division now that they’ve combined with MSN.

Apple has always followed the competition in price.

As for the Vista features, I think Search’s time had come. Google and Microsoft and Apple have all released products. Well Microsoft sorta did.

As for the iPod video being called a PSP knockoff… how? Because it plays video? Was the original iPod an FM radio knockoff or a walkman knockoff? That’s the silliest argument ever. What was Apple supposed to innovate with; 3D tactile and scented television shows?

I read all the Leopard rumours. There hasn’t been a single one that hasn’t been a complete fabrication, so hold your horses on that one.

Apple doesn’t innovate? Aperture, iMovie, Final Cut Studio, Exposé, Dashboard (and don’t say Konfabulator), Spotlight (don’t forget it exists and it works, which is more innovation than Microsoft, and it doesn’t suck which is more innovation than Google).

I’m not trying to be rude, but your post made no sense. Unless you meant that Apple copied the Media Center idea, which Microsoft in turn copied from all the “convergence” talk of the 90s. That is the only part that makes sense.

David

oogle and Microsoft and Apple have all released products. Well Microsoft sorta did.

How did MS “sorta” release one. WDS is a fully working fast search utility.

Dashboard (and don’t say Konfabulator)

Spotlight (don’t forget it exists and it works, which is more innovation than Microsoft, and it doesn’t suck which is more innovation than Google).

Just completely wrong. WDS both exists and works quite well, and neither are even close to sucking.

which Microsoft in turn copied from all the “convergence� talk of the 90s.

By that token, ARPA copied talk about linking computers over wires.

As for the iPod video being called a PSP knockoff… how? Because it plays video? Was the original iPod an FM radio knockoff or a walkman knockoff? That’s the silliest argument ever. What was Apple supposed to innovate with; 3D tactile and scented television shows?

I didn’t say it was a knockoff.  Like Nick said, iPod Video rumors have been floating around for years (basically since PMC’s showed up) but ask yourself why the device suddenly showed up now?  Why is it that Jobs specifically mentioned how bad of an idea it was to watch video on a tiny screen then as soon as the PSP made portable video huge (about 10 million UMD movies sold $15-20 a pop so far) Jobs rushed something to market.  And don’t tell me it’s not rushed to market because it is… barely any content, limited real conversion tools, tiny screen, low battery life, horrible in-movie controls etc.

I think it’s obvious that if there was no PSP or UMD sales that there would be no iPod video.

Apple doesn’t innovate? Aperture, iMovie, Final Cut Studio, Exposé, Dashboard (and don’t say Konfabulator), Spotlight (don’t forget it exists and it works, which is more innovation than Microsoft, and it doesn’t suck which is more innovation than Google).

I didn’t say they don’t innovate… I said they aren’t creating trends anymore and whatever they don’t innovate they seek to copy fast, like MSN.

But to break down your list anyway…
Aperture- has some innovative features but so do most products in that category.  Also not leading any kind of trend toward this kind of software as similar products are very popular in the audience they are intended for.

iMovie- one could say that iMovie led the trend towards consumer video editing although Pinnacle should definitely get the credit here.  iMovie was the first to be integrated into an OS and Microsoft definitely followed that trend with Movie Maker but this was 5 years ago.

FCP Studio-- nothing more innovative here than in other competing products like Avid Xpress Studio, Adobe Video Collection, Sony’s Collection, Edius etc.
Technically, FCP was actually following in the trend of affordable desktop video editing popularized by Adobe Premiere.
Exposé- check but not really a trend starter as other OSes are really moving to add it to their feature set.
Dashboard- Seriously, you try to paint this as innovative while claiming that Media Center PC’s are “copied from all the “convergenceâ€? talk of the 90s”? That’s huge double standard.
Spotlight- where’s the innovation here?  Desktop search was around in the form of X1, Sharepoint/IIS, Lookout, MS Office, Find Fast and others. Is bundling it with the OS “innovation”?  I don’t think so because then we could credit MS with tons innovations for all the stuff they have bundled with Windows (and in Vista that list would include Virtual PC, DVD ripping, and more).  It’s very clear that Apple was more “inspired” by Longhorn’s search to creat Spotlight than Microsoft was inspired by any random and vague “covergence talk” to create MCE.  Spotlight is extremely similar in technical implementation to Longhorn’s search features as they appeared in builds 4015-474 (Winhec ad PDC 2003 respectively).  And before you go off on a rant “For sale” !== “exist” so yes that particular implemention of desktop search did/does exist and was given to developer long before Apple showed off Spotlight.  And Microsoft released their version first anyway in the form of MSDS so tread lightly around your double standards.  Feel free to look at the US patent office’s definition of what ideas and products exist and which do not.  It has nothing to do with what is for sale but what is documented and publically demonstrated (if only in writing).  Longhorn’s desktop seach and virtual folder system is actually code that was handed out to thousands of developers, and pirated by thousands of others.  It still resides on thepiratebay.com or MSDN if you want a copy.

Macintosh TV, anyone?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_TV

Too bad it didn’t start any kind of trend.  No one really decided to make any similar products because of it… that’s my point.  It came… no other companies cared… it died.. no one cared.  Microsoft picked up the idea years later and made it popular and Apple is now following that trend.  They aren’t following the trend created by the Macintosh TV because their was no trend.

No, no, no.

It’s not that Apple is copying anyone else. Think Will Smith.

As in…

“The difference is I make this look good.”

Also…

“Beauty may only be skin deep, but ugly goes clear to the bone.”—Red Foxx

Front Row on a TV. Now, who said they didn’t think that would happen again?

I like how Windows Media Center PCs have supposedly started this TV/computer trend, yet only 1/3rd of them are sold with a TV tuner.

Arguing who started talking about the digital hub first doesn’t really matter. What matters is Front Row on my TV.

As always you seem to be making things up.  I didn’t say anything about Frontrow on your TV I said Apple wouldn’t offer a DVR.
Who really cares if you can output your screen to a TV?  Don’t current iMacs already have TV output?

Secondly, it hasn’t even happened yet.

Third, the Macintosh TV was not a DVR.

As always you seem to be making things up.  I didn’t say anything about Frontrow on your TV I said Apple wouldn’t offer a DVR.
Who really cares if you can output your screen to a TV?  Don’t current iMacs already have TV output?

Correction.  I said Apple wouldn’t offer a DVR until they were basically forced to do so by the market.

I could share your opinion of “a taste of things to come” if I thought Apple was going to provide DVR functionality but I don’t think they will, it would be against their (iTMS) business model. People who can record episodes of “Lost” or “Desparate Housewives” wouldn’t need to buy those episodes from the iTMS (video) store. That would hurt Apple in numerous ways. Most importantly it would eliminate iTunes video sales and not give Apple any trackable numbers to brag about. Apple uses their bragging to boost their stock price and it works quite well.

I doubt they’ll do the Airport Express thing because they want you to use your iPod as the hookup into your TV (dumb) and the videos are 320x240 which looks like crap on even a SD TV.

Neither one of those things has anything to do with FrontRow on your TV.  One is about DVR’s and the other is about Airport Express (Video).  Frontrow is something on the Mac and Mac specific.

Please try harder next time.

Like I said, the iMac already has video output via S-Video and Composite.

Neither one of those things has anything to do with FrontRow on your TV.

Yes, the second one does. I said I wanted Front Row on my TV, maybe via Airport Express. You then made the quote I gave you.

Like I said, the iMac already has video output via S-Video and Composite.

No kidding. However, I don’t want to buy an iMac with Front Row and then sit it next to my TV. I want either a console of some kind that fits in my AV rack, or something like Airport Express with video and a remote with Front Row.

Third, the Macintosh TV was not a DVR.

You yourself said only 25% of Media Center PCs sold have a TV tuner.

Yes, the second one does. I said I wanted Front Row on my TV, maybe via Airport Express. You then made the quote I gave you.

No, your posts didn’t say anything about Airport Express until after I mentioned it.  We were talking about being able to record TV shows.
Again, Airport Express Video != Frontrow on your TV necessarily.  It would make more sense to use a far simpler interface with less options or just use an iPod (possibly with Wifi?) to output to your TV.  Or better yet they should endever to interopt with devices people already (or will) use in their homes like TiVO’s, PS3’s and Xbox360’s.  The Xbox 360 doesn’t play H.264, or MPeg-4 out of the box but making a codec for it shouldn’t be difficult nor should making a small program that hooks it into iTunes.  Both could be offered over the Xbox Live Marketplace just like the AAC codec is offered today (it’s free BTW).

http://www.dtgeeks.com/index.php/mainsite/n ewscomment/new_ipods_new_apps_new_imacs/#comment s

No kidding. However, I don’t want to buy an iMac with Front Row and then sit it next to my TV. I want either a console of some kind that fits in my AV rack, or something like Airport Express with video and a remote with Front Row.

Which, of course, is the pickle that Apple created… on purpose. They must have some reason why they didn’t put Frontrow on the Mac Mini instead of the iMac.  I’d say it’s one or more of these reasons:

1.  They’d rather sell iMacs than Minis because of the higher margin.  So this adds some more value to the iMac.
2.  They plan on abandoning, radically changing, or updating the Mini in the near feature and are holding the frontrow update back until that change can be made.
3.  They’d rather you buy an iPod and use it to get videos on your TV.  This could also explain why there is no Airport Express Video and no DVD burning capability with iTunes video store videos.
2.

No, your posts didn’t say anything about Airport Express until after I mentioned it.  We were talking about being able to record TV shows.

You are making things up again.

My very first post says:

Apple is now on this media center path and will continue to add functionality, no doubt. I wonder if they will put Front Row on the Airport Express in some way.

You replied with:

I doubt they’ll do the Airport Express thing because they want you to use your iPod as the hookup into your TV

So do you now want to retract your statement in this thread that said:

I didn’t say anything about Frontrow on your TV I said Apple wouldn’t offer a DVR.

and this one:

Correction.  I said Apple wouldn’t offer a DVR until they were basically forced to do so by the market.

1.  They’d rather sell iMacs than Minis because of the higher margin.  So this adds some more value to the iMac.
2.  They plan on abandoning, radically changing, or updating the Mini in the near feature and are holding the frontrow update back until that change can be made.
3.  They’d rather you buy an iPod and use it to get videos on your TV.  This could also explain why there is no Airport Express Video and no DVD burning capability with iTunes video store videos.

4. They have a new Airport Express that has a video GUI and remote control (which is a rumored product). The video GUI, no doubt, would be Front Row.
5. They have a completely new device that has the AV form factor with Front Row.

Front Row’s UI is obviously designed for a TV. It’s got a big thick font and big buttons and doesn’t use 1-point thin horizontal lines.

What’s the point of having Front Row on a Mac in the first place? Instead of sitting 10 feet away from the Mac and going through a dozen Front Row UI screens just to play The Rolling Stones, why wouldn’t you just use the keyboard and iTunes there on the iMac 10 feet in front of you? Seriously, I would never choose to click a dozen times to go through that Front Row UI if I had a Mac right in front of me. I would, however, do that if I had Front Row on my TV and I was streaming my stuff from a Mac elsewhere.

Icons in XP animate as well.  The MYIE2 icon spins around.  Maxthon and WDS have icons that pulsate etc.

Apparently icons in Vista can do much more.  I know earlier builds can do some fairly unique things.
http://www.alphaaddict.myprofitshosting.com /WinFS/PhotosByYear.jpg

One of the 4xxx builds featured icons that could spin around in 3D.  You mouse over the icon and it does a little spin.  Since all the icons were 2D it looked a little weird but nonetheless cool.  There’s a video of it somewhere on the net and you can enable it via a registry key.  I think I posted it on xvsxp.com.

Microsoft has also been using the same type of 3D view that Frontrow uses.  You can see a bit of it in the pic above, a lot more of it in the video, and some of it is on winsupersite.

Video Airport Express rumor:
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1304

It’s amazing how much space Microsoft wastes with their user interface design. A whopping 30% of the space for listing files.